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Welcome to Episode 354 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

How to win back a client who dared to leave you for another MSP

I want to talk about a type of prospect that almost no MSP ever follows up with.

The prospect is a client who left you in the past.

Let me make the case right now for why winning back these kind of people is actually one of the easiest, cheapest, and maybe even most overlooked opportunities in your entire marketing.

Winning back a client who left you is up to five times more cost-effective than winning a brand new client.

If you think about it, they already know your name, your reputation, they know roughly what working with you is like, even if you’ve changed in the year since they left. And yet research consistently shows that most B2B businesses do not do this. Almost three quarters of companies have no win-back process at all. They lose a client and that’s the end of the story. So why does this happen? And specifically, why does it happen with MSPs?

I wonder, is it down to pride and discomfort? Because I don’t know about you, but I know for me, it feels a little bit awkward to go back to someone who chose a competitor over you. It’s one thing if you pitch to someone and they choose a competitor in the first place, but if you’ve worked with someone for a couple of years and then they leave you for a competitor, that’s where it almost feels slightly personal, doesn’t it? And it can feel a lot more awkward. It almost feels like you’re admitting weakness or you’re chasing them and you don’t want to be. I guess if you put it in ex-boyfriend/ex-girlfriend terms, you don’t want to be the ex that reaches out because that’s uncomfortable.

But they’re not an ex-boyfriend or an ex-girlfriend, they’re an ex-client, and that discomfort is costing you easy revenue that’s sat there to be collected. Let’s be clear about the kind of clients we’re talking about here… We’re not talking about the ones that have been acquired by another business, that business is gone. We’re not talking about the ones that have gone bust, obviously that business is gone as well. We’re talking about if they have switched from you to another MSP. So let’s talk this through and all the aspects of it.

Let’s deal with timing first, this matters more than you would think. If you reach out too soon, you are the needy ex and of course they’re still in the honeymoon period with their new provider. But if you reach out too late, you’ve completely missed the window where they realise that the grass wasn’t greener on the other side. Because that’s why someone switches, isn’t it? They leave you for another MSP thinking that with the other MSP the grass is going to be greener. And there does come a point where they realise that actually, some of the things are going to be different with that other MSP, but some things will be worse, some things will be better because every MSP operates and delivers in quite a different way.

We did a little bit of research on this and the research broadly supports a timing window somewhere between two to six months after they leave. And my gut feel would be towards the back of that. So if they leave you in January, you should be reaching out in June… April, May, June kind of time. And most attempts to win back a client happen far too early. They happen at the point that someone cancels or the point that the client says they’re not going to sign another contract. That’s the worst point because that’s the point the client is least receptive. And obviously, of course, you should have the conversation about why are you moving? What is it that’s made you not choose another contract with us? Yes, of course that’s a conversation you should have. But if they’ve just cancelled, that’s too soon.

The sweet spot then, for an MSP specifically, is four, five, six months. That’s your kind of target you should go for. And that’s long enough for them to have left you, be happy with their new provider, they’ve been onboarded. And it’s also enough time for any problems to start to surface. But it’s not so long that they have accepted those problems and stopped noticing the gaps. Remember, switching MSPs is a distress purchase for most ordinary businesses. They don’t want to switch MSPs, so if they’re motivated to do so, then there comes a point with their new MSP where they’re going to stop noticing the things that are wrong. But that first four, five, six months is a great time where all of the joy of the switch is gone and now they’re starting to be like, these are the problems with these guys.

The other thing I think you should look out for is trigger moments. So for example, the contract renewal date. If they left you in June, the chances are that their contract renewal date every year or every two years or whatever, is going to be in June. So if nothing happens at that six-month mark, there’s nothing wrong with you reaching out to them a month before their contract renewal every year or every couple of years depending on the contract they’ve signed, and just checking in with them saying, “Just checking to see how everything’s going and if it’s worth us having a conversation?”

There are other triggers like this, like if there’s a high profile cyber attack in the news, or if you are getting really good at that AI consulting that we were talking about last week in the podcast, for example, and you notice that the competitor that they’ve switched to doesn’t seem to be pushing that, you can reach out to them and you can say, “Hey, I hope everything’s going great with your new company. By the way, we are now offering some high level AI consulting, which is all about implementing safe AI across the business that’s got sort of guardrails and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.” All of that kind of stuff. So you’re looking for these natural reasons to reach out to them. And you should do it, not just once, but do it at that six-month mark, do it at the 12-month contract renewal mark, reach out if you have a thing that you think you’re doing their competitors aren’t doing, and at the very least, every single time their contract is up.

There’s going to come a point when they’re going to leave those people. And actually, they might have been sitting there thinking, why did we ever leave you? People do that. They go over, they think the grass is greener, and they sit there and they say, “I wish we’d never left the other people.” So actually, when you reach out to them, you are being the bigger person and making it easier for them to say, “We made a mistake. Can we come back?” Because actually their pride could stop them from reaching out to you and saying, “Can we come back?” Because that’s a horrible thing to do, that feels awkward. But if you are the one that’s reached out to them, then you are doing the hard work of taking that loss of pride away from them. Does that make sense?

Let’s talk about how you actually do this. So your tone has to be completely free of any, “Why did you switch?”, “I told you so.” You have to get rid of all of that. I know it hurts. It hurts me when a client leaves me, I’ve been in business for 20 years and every single client leaving has been a stab right into my heart. I’m sure it’s exactly the same for you. And your clients are a lot bigger than my clients. So I know that financially it affects you a lot more, but also I’m sure that the knife is going deeper into your heart. And we carry that, don’t we, as business owners? It’s because the business is our baby. We do take all the good things and the bad things very emotionally. It’s a very hard thing to get away from. But you have to get rid of all of that. So especially even if you know they’ve switched to a new provider that you know is just not as good as you. So if you know they’ve moved from a very comfortable experience to something that’s not going to be quite so good, obviously you never say that to them. You don’t go in and imply it, you don’t be smug about it. You have to go in removing all of the emotions from it and just go in as a friendly person that they used to work with.

And then I think you should make the outreach personal and not just personalised. So don’t just send them an email or send them a standard letter in the post. Why not send them a note from you, like a one-on-one note? You could actually hand write something. Or maybe the 2026 way is to do a personalised video for them using something like Vidyard or BombBomb or Bonjoro or one of the other platforms like that. And you might just say, “Hey, I just wanted to check in, see how it’s going. It’s been six months since we last worked together, so I was just curious how everything is. I’m hoping to hear back that everything’s wonderful with your new provider because I want the best for you. But if that’s not the case, I’m happy to have a conversation with you. We’d always love to have you back.” Something as simple as that, but something personal from you as the owner of the business. I think you should lead with curiosity rather than a pitch. Some specific words you could say could be something like, “Do you know, it’s been a while since we worked together. It’s been six months, so I just wanted to check in, see how things are going for you.” But as I say, don’t pitch. You can open the door and can say “If ever you wanted to come back, I’m happy to have that conversation.” And that’s that thing that takes their pride out of it.

Now, if they do respond and there is a door that’s open there, don’t rush straight in for a sales pitch, because remember they already know what it’s like to work with you. So I would just lead in with questions. “How’s the new setup working for you?” If they’re saying that something’s not quite right, then say specifically, “Can you tell me what wasn’t working?”, which is good competitor info as well as them telling you what they’re not happy about. “What’s changed since we last spoke? What are some of the areas that you feel have gone down that you want to bring back up? What are some of the areas that you feel were better than we delivered that we can improve for you?” So essentially you’re saying to them, “Come back to us… You’ll get all the things you used to enjoy and we’re going to match the things that that other company was good at.” Let them tell you what’s actually going on because most often they will volunteer the problem themselves.

And then if they do come back to you, be very wary of using financial incentives or financial penalties. I have heard of MSPs who when a client returns to them, they jack the price up. And I can see why you do that. And sometimes it’s because that was a long-standing client and the price was too low and they left anyway. If you do that, do it for the right reason, do it to equalise the prices. Don’t use it as a penalty, as a punishment for them, but also don’t use a financial incentive to bring them back. Trust me, if they have opened the door and they are willing to talk to you about coming back to your MSP, that’s the motivation. If they’re willing to go through a switch again, they feel like they made a mistake and they want to come back to you. They don’t need a financial incentive to do that. Giving someone a discount in this instance would just give away your margin. Don’t do that.

And then finally, don’t give up after one message. As I say, it does take a series of messages to talk to people. So at that six-month point, you might send them a video, you might send them an email follow-up, you might make a phone call follow up to them. I know it’s awkward, but trust me, at some point you’re going to talk to someone and they’re going to say, “I’m so glad you called. Thank you very much.” We’re all busy these days. We don’t have time to watch the videos and the emails and answer the phone all the time. But if you are gently persistent, I sound like an AI when I say that, don’t I? That’s a human thing though, be gently persistent and just gently keep in touch with them till you have a conversation and you’ll know where they are. Sending one video or one email and nothing more these days is just a waste of time, if that makes sense.

Now, all of that there, what I’ve just talked about, that should be built into a standard operating procedure. I know you don’t lose clients very often, but when you do lose a client, even if it’s just once every other year, go to your system, set a date in your reminder system, whatever you use to reach out to them six months later and build it into how you run the business in the same way that you build in any other piece of marketing. It all has to be a system because in marketing, it’s only when you’ve got systems that you really get the most out of it.

Every MSP has a handful of clients who’s left over the years, and most of them are sitting in a spreadsheet or somewhere hidden away in the PSA completely forgotten. Today, you could go and find those people. Pick two or three who left for reasons that are completely fixable, and why not just send them a one-to-one video message this week? You might be amazed how many of them have been sitting there wondering if they made the right call in switching to the other guys at all.

The horrendous truth of how MSPs are losing sales opportunities and annoying existing clients on the phone

I want to talk about something that I think is a big problem across the whole channel, and that is the phone, or specifically how badly so many MSPs handle phone calls.

Sometimes I chat to other vendors and they tell me horror stories about ringing an MSP and they ring and ring and ring and no one ever answers the phone.

So today let’s go through some of the crimes that MSPs commit on the phone because actually if this is you, I know you don’t want the vendor salesperson getting through to you, but what if it was a prospect? What if it was a client trying to get hold of you…?

Let’s start with that most basic crime of all, which is not answering the phone. And a surprising number of MSPs, which are businesses built on providing a reliable support service, it’s surprising how many just don’t pick up the phone. It rings out or it goes to a generic voicemail. Now just think about how mad that is. You are in the business of being reliably available for your clients, so your own phone behaviour must reflect that. And if they can’t reach you on the phone because you’re busy, then it’s saying completely the opposite of “We’ve got your back.” And there is some research on this as well. Around 75% of callers report feeling really frustrated when they can’t reach a real person, especially when they’re already stressed about a problem that they’ve got, which is basically your clients.

So here’s the prospect version of this. If a potential client is ringing you to ask a question or book an appointment and they get no answer, no one answers the phone, that says to them, “You are not open for business.” And they will not call back. Unless they are desperate to work with you, perhaps because they were referred to you, they’re much more likely to move on to the next MSP that’s been recommended to them by their AI tool. They don’t leave voicemails, they don’t try again, they just go elsewhere. And you might never know that you missed out on a hot opportunity.

The second crime is the generic and unhelpful voicemail. “Hi, you’ve reached the office of X, Y, Z IT. Please leave a message.” But if there’s no name, no warmth, no kind of real human being at the end of it, then it tells the caller nothing about that business and whether even they’ll hear back. So don’t have a, “Hi, thanks for calling,” kind of a voice message. Have a real person saying, “Hello, it’s Dave here from X, Y, Z IT. Hey, do you know what, we’re really busy at the moment or we’re supporting all of our clients at the moment. Leave a number, we’re going to call you back within the next 15 minutes.” That’s all right, there’s nothing wrong with a voice message like that.

Crime number three is the call that goes to the wrong person. So a client rings with an urgent issue and ends up speaking to whoever happens to grab the phone who maybe isn’t equipped to help them and fumbles around and puts them on hold or promises a call back that then doesn’t happen. So you’ve got to make sure that existing clients are getting straight through to the help desk. I would say the way to do that is one number for support, another number for everyone else. And I know you can do the whole press one for this, press two for that (we’re going to talk about that in a second) but if you’ve got a number that’s coming into help desk and all of your help desk people are busy, you could then divert that call to a call answering service. So at least another human is talking to your human client and saying, “Oh, hi. Yep, I’m on the help desk team, but I’m not able to help you myself. I’m going to get Dave to give you a call back in five minutes.” Something like that would be a very simple way of doing it.

Crime number four is actually having your senior engineers answer all of the calls. That to me feels like a waste of their time. And you could think it sounds good to the clients and kind of helpful for them on the surface, but actually if your senior staff are constantly being interrupted, picking up the phone and having to talk about a password reset or a new user, then they’re spending too much of their high level time on low level issues. This is why having a dispatcher is such a great thing. It’s something we talked about in a previous podcast. Someone whose job it is just to answer the phone, reassure the clients, and then sort of route that work out to the technicians. In fact, often if you have a dispatcher, you don’t need to hire so many technicians, which is great. It’s easier to hire a dispatcher than it is a new technician.

Crime number five is the triage black hole. A call comes in, it gets logged as a ticket, but the caller doesn’t know what’s going to happen next. They don’t know if it’s urgent or not. They don’t know if it’s a priority, if someone’s going to get back to them. So them calling in and hearing nothing back, that’s almost as damaging as you not answering the call in the first place.

Crime number six is treating every client the same regardless of urgency. So if someone calls up and it’s a password reset or it’s a new user thing or whatever, and that gets the same kind of response time or the same kind of, “Yeah, we’re going to look into it.” As someone who calls up and says, “I’ve got 20 staff here who no one can access the internet. We can’t do our work.” You and I know one of those is an emergency, one of them is not an emergency. And clients really remember how they felt about how you dealt with them during their moments of panic. So you’ve got to be able to say to them, “Right, this is a number one priority for us. We’re going to go and press some buttons, find out what’s happening. We’re going to call you back in the next 15 minutes.” Versus, “Yep, we can get you a new user set up. I’ll be honest, this isn’t a priority for us. It’s a priority for you I know. And oh, so your member of staff has already started yesterday and you didn’t tell us. Not a problem, I’ll send you the form through now, fill that in and we’ll get that done for you in the next hour.” Or whatever is the case.

Crime number seven is when they ring and they have to press 1 for accounts, 2 for support, 3 for sales, 4 if you’re a vendor and I’m going to cut you off, etc etc. What’s that called, is it IVR? People hate that. I know it’s efficient, but if there’s like four, five, six people in your business and they have to stab the buttons to get through to someone, it’s really, really frustrating. There’s a bank here in the UK called First Direct, and I haven’t phoned them for many years, but I have an account with them, I have an account with lots of banks here in the UK. But if I phoned them back in the day, their thing used to be 24/7 banking on the phone, and if you phoned them within three rings, you were through to a human. Even at four in the morning, and I did used to call them at four in the morning when I was a radio presenter and I was ringing up to check something in my account while I was driving into work, it was great. And you never had to go through the beep, beep, beep pressing buttons, all the different options, or even worse when you have to say to them. And that was one of the reasons I stayed with that bank and I loved them because compared to ringing the other banks where it was, “You have 17 options”, it was so frustrating. So if you have one of those IVRs or whatever they’re called, just consider getting rid of it. Having someone, a human who answers the phone and diverts the call to whoever needs is so much better because the human is talking to the human straight away. And I know there’s AI things and there’s automated things and this and that. But the more people put in place AI things, the more I believe actually real humans talking to real humans is absolutely the right thing.

Another crime is after hours, in emergency calls that nothing ever gets acted on. So if something breaks for someone at 8pm on Friday, they can’t reach anyone, they’ve left a voicemail, they’re stranded, they feel uneasy, that’s not a good thing at all. Actually they’re going to be a little bit upset with you even though you finish at five or six on a Friday and you’re back on a Monday morning and you’ve told them that till you’re blue in the face and the voicemail said that, it might be worth looking at what if there is a 24-hour call answering service that either they can just talk and log a ticket with, and then perhaps that text comes through to your engineer or your duty engineer or whatever, or actually look at an outsourced help desk for your downtime. As your MSP gets bigger, you need to consider things like 24/7 support. And most of the time it’s actually just a few hours in the evening when we’re doing a bit of work or a Saturday morning. It’s rarely four in the morning. But once you’ve got that in place, that’s a good value add for your clients. So what does good actually look like? Here are a few principles that I think are worth you taking seriously.

I think every call should be answered every time by a real human.

The data that we’ve looked up on the internet shows that people want a person and not an automated system, especially when they’re stressed, which is your clients or maybe even your prospects. Prospects can get stressed because they don’t want to have to switch from one MSP to another, but they do it. You should have a proper triage process. Someone whose job is to pick up the problem, understand the urgency, ask the right questions and prioritise it. That’s your dispatcher. It shouldn’t be your most senior engineer who’s doing that. You should set clear expectations on every single call. If you can’t fix it immediately, tell them what happens next and roughly when they’re going to hear from you. Get rid of that uncertainty because it’s the uncertainty that creates the frustration, not the actual waiting itself.

Pull together a plan for out of hours emergencies, whether it’s just a third-party answering service, just so a human feels that they’ve been heard or whether it’s a proper IT help desk. And this is the one that connects directly to your marketing, every single phone interaction, whether it’s with a prospect or an existing client, is a marketing moment. It either reinforces the trust you’ve worked so hard to build or it undermines it. And one other thing, make sure every single member of your team knows that if a prospect ever calls in and shows any interest in working with you, that is the highest priority call that could ever come into your business. Make sure they understand the very simple system to get hold of either you or who does the selling and what happens if you or that person are on a vacation, a holiday, so that that person, the prospect, can speak to someone immediately ideally without them ever having to be called back.

Here’s an idea. Go and test your own phone system this week. Ring it from your mobile, experience exactly what happens when your prospects and clients ring up, or maybe do it from someone else’s mobile so they don’t recognise the number. If what you hear embarrasses you even slightly, you’ve got to fix that. In fact, you’ve got to fix it before you spend another penny generating more leads or working on your client retention because right now you might be losing leads or even just annoying customers when they’re phoning you up.

Members’ Update

If you’re an MSP Marketing Edge member, don’t forget that you have unlimited access to world-class support. And I know that every vendor says they have great support, but we genuinely do because we know that one of the reasons you join us is because marketing feels very difficult to you and it’s the complete opposite of the tech work that you enjoy. So I have a team of people who are there to answer your text questions. So if you email into us, for example, or use the chat on our website or on our portal, but also they will jump on one-to-one calls with you. And that’s to help with any aspect of your marketing that you’re stuck on, not just implementing the MSP Marketing Edge system. In fact, every week we do loads of calls with our members just to help them get past their problems. So if you want to access that, just go to support in the portal. It’s there at the top of the navigation.

And if you’re not yet a member, we have two memberships available. We have a B2B one if you want to win business owner clients, and we have a co-managed one if you want to win IT director clients. And each of those is only available to one MSP per area. So check if yours is available. Just put your postal code or your zip code in at mspmarketingedge.com/membership.

Heresy! This MSP thinks you should sell Google Workspace, not Microsoft

Featured guest: Dan Taylor is the founder of AppsEDU, an MSP focussed on Google Workspace customers, and also the founder of the ‘Workspace Audit tool,’ which allows customers and MSPs to manage the security of their Google environments. 

We all know that 99.84% of the channel sells Microsoft. Yeah, I made that stat up, but it’s probably not that far off. And yet this MSP believes that you should instead be selling Google Workspace. Get your rotten tomatoes and eggs ready as we put him in the stocks and let him try to convince you himself.

Hi, I’m Dan Taylor. I’m the owner of AppsEDU. We’re an MSP focused mostly on the education vertical. I’m focused on Google. And I also run a system called Workspace Audit.

And thanks so much for joining me on the podcast, Dan, we are going to go into dangerous territory today because one of the things you want to talk about is why MSPs should be selling Google Workspace. And already I can hear thousands of people across the world going *deep intake of breath* at the thought of selling Google Workspace instead of selling Microsoft, but we’re going to explore that today. And I know you do a lot of that within your MSP and we’ll talk about the audit tool that you have as well. But just give us a bit of background about you. So we can hear that you’re British, but you’re not based in the UK. In fact, from what you and I were just saying before we started our interview, you’ve got a very international business by the sound of it.

Yeah, that’s right. I mean, we work with an international school, so they’re obviously international. I’m from the UK, from Yorkshire, but I’ve been in Prague for 20 years, just outside Prague. My team’s in the Philippines, UK, Czech Republic, and Dubai. So really very international and focused on schools.

So do you work with schools in lots of different countries as well?

Exactly, international schools. So you probably know it’s a huge market. I mean, if you say Dubai, for example, there’s almost 300 international schools in Dubai. Bangkok, there’s 200. You can pick a city across Asia and Middle East. It’s a big market.

Yeah, no, it sounds like it. And it’s interesting that your MSP is highly focused on the education sector because the small number of MSPs that I know who are Google shops, essentially they resell and recommend Google Workspace, not all of them but many of them do tend to be more education-focused than business-focused. And that’s one of the things I hear from MSPs when I’ve talked to them is not a criticism, but an observation that, “Ah, Google, that’s not for businesses.” But I guess your message is that’s not actually the case.

It absolutely isn’t. And although we’ve very much, for most of our history, we have been in education, we’re now working with more and more businesses, even up to some enterprise customers, 30,000 user businesses. So it’s really changing. And we can talk a bit about that later about how it’s shifted from education to business.

Well, let’s do that now because we’re not having a technical conversation about Google today. Obviously we’re looking at this from a revenue, from an opportunity and an operations point of view. Let me first of all declare, we use Google. So within the MSP Marketing Edge, we’re a Gmail business. And that was a conscious choice of mine 10 years ago because I don’t like Microsoft products. I don’t tell anyone that. So I’m a big fan. It just works. And I know people laugh at me when I say, “Oh, we use Gmail because it just works.” But guess what? It does just work. And I see what the hell that MSPs have to go through sometimes with Outlook and all of the other associated things. From your point of view, is it simply a case that it’s easier to use and administrate? Or is it a case that it opens up other opportunities or is it something else?

It’s interesting, it’s basically a religious war of Microsoft and Google. I’ve been a member of some MSP forums and just posting a Google question got me hate. I mean, if you promote Google, some people see it kind of as an attack on their existence. I just want to say I’m from the Microsoft world, I was an MCSE. That was my background for many, many years until I discovered Google. But definitely it’s changing a huge amount and I’m really becoming a big business thing. Education-wise just some numbers for you, in the US it’s roughly 80% of schools use Google Workspace and it’s 60% in the UK. So it’s a huge number, but that’s also increasing with business.

And I guess I wonder if Google’s playing a very clever long game. I’ll give you an example of some software from a previous career of mine. So I used to be in radio,  I used to be a radio presenter. And we used to use a piece of software to schedule the music on the radio stations called Selector. And the people who owned Selector, which did dominate the market, they gave the software for free to all of the universities and anywhere there was a student radio station. So all of the students and the next generation of radio people grew up using that software. So then when they came into the workplace, they already knew how to use it. Do you think that’s one of the things that Google’s trying to do with its education program?

Absolutely. I mean, it’s the crack dealer business model. You get people hooked on your product and then you hope they keep using it afterwards. And you see that in the numbers.

Small businesses, so businesses of one to nine people, overwhelmingly use Google Workspace.

Roughly if you talk about the numbers, it’s like 60 / 40 of Google to Microsoft, and that switches when you get to above nine people. But yeah, absolutely, I think that’s Google’s in. And I think the other way they’ve got in after the university is startups, because that’s overwhelmingly Google. Startups, FinTechs, it’s like 95% Google Workspace.

For you as an MSP, as you’re supporting these larger businesses, without getting technical, what are some of the limitations that hold you back with Google or have they ironed those out over the years?

It’s 100% cloud-based, that’s the thing. So if you’re coming from a world where you want to have desktop apps and you want to have that kind of syncing and that experience, I think Google is very hard. I think limitations, you can look at individual apps, most people would say Excel has got more functionality than Google Sheets, Outlook has got more functionality than Gmail. So you could probably say it is a bit more of a basic solution, although it is catching up and there’s a lot of integration. But I think that would be the main criticism would be some of the apps are a bit more basic, but I would say it’s more than compensated by the simplification of the administration and the management of it.

So looking at it from an operations and a profit point of view then, I guess you’re spending less time playing around with settings to achieve the things that people want, but how does that affect you from a revenue point of view? Do people expect to pay less for Google Workspace and is there less margin for you because they’re buying something and everyone has a free Gmail and they see Gmail or Google Sheets as a schools thing?

It’s a really good point and it’s hard for me to answer that because I’ve never supported Microsoft customers, at my Microsoft career I was an employee. But I think, yes, I would say the revenue, anecdotally, the revenue would be lower you’d make per customer per seat in Google compared to Microsoft. But on the plus side, you would be able to take on more customers. I think it would work out net, you would make higher income. And obviously reselling the licenses, you’ll get a similar margin reselling Google licenses that you would get reselling Microsoft licenses.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And then the final thing I guess we have to look at is AI. So obviously Copilot is now starting to mature as a product, and one of the reasons you’d integrate that into 365 is because of the guardrails and the ability to do things with Copilot that you can’t do currently with Claude and ChatGPT, etc. In terms of Google’s Gemini, is that as mature a product yet in terms of those business guardrails?

Again, your audience is going to hate me, but I think it’s night and day how much better it is. I mean, if you look at most of the recent benchmarks, Copilot against Gemini, Gemini is streets ahead. Gemini has suffered in the past from not being as well integrated into all the apps, like taking something from a Google Sheet and putting it into Gmail. But with the new updates, literally this month, you can do all that. So it’s definitely, as an AI LLM and the model, it’s much better.

Okay. That’s a very objective thing though, isn’t it? And just by the way, we recorded this in May 2026. I say that because obviously by the time this gets broadcast, the whole world could have changed again with AI. That’s typically what happens.

Another thing to add as well, Paul, is that people often dismiss Google. Let’s talk about, again, some numbers, if you talk about the enterprise market, it’s almost 80% Microsoft and it’s almost just over 20% Google. So they say, okay, that’s only 20%, but that’s 20% of a huge market, billions and billions of pounds and dollars market. And I would say even though the Google MSP market is competitive, it’s less competitive than Microsoft, and it’s definitely less competitive relative to the number of customers out there. So competition per customer is better in the Google sphere than it is in the Microsoft sphere.

Yeah. Interesting. Okay. So if you’re listening to this or watching this on YouTube and you have hate mail, don’t send it to Dan. Don’t send it to me. Just put it on Reddit. I think that’s probably the best place for all the negative comments. Just as long as I don’t get it, that’s fine. I don’t like emails like that. Let’s talk about your SaaS business that you’ve put together. So this is something that directly relates into Google Workspace, isn’t it?

Yeah, exactly. The tool’s called Workspace Audit. And we’ve done a tool which simplifies the management, not just security, but operations of Google Workspace. As I mentioned, Google Workspace is simpler, there’s one admin console, whereas Microsoft, you’ve got multiple systems. You’ve got the admin centre, you’ve got the exchange portal, you’ve got all kinds of things. You’ve got one admin centre, but still there are hundreds of settings in different places. So we’ve made a tool that allows you to go through, identify the high priority issues, fix them in an orderly way, get a security score. And for an MSP one thing that’s very interesting, if you’ve got multiple customers, which you do, you can manage all in one portal. So you can manage all of your Google customers in one portal, track the scores, even manage things like third-party apps, DNS settings, everything in there. So that’s what our SaaS has created. We’ve created it to sell to businesses and schools, but we’re getting more and more interest from MSPs, so that’s great.

Great. And I’m guessing this is one of those tools that you built to fix your own frustrations.

Exactly. We’ve been doing security audits, one thing most MSPs do is security audits. We’ve been doing that for decades, and we built this to simplify that, and it kind of grew, and now it’s our main thing. I’m an MSP operator myself still now, even with this. So we know what’s required.

Dan, thank you so much for your time telling us about that. So just tell us what’s the website address to go and find out about that tool. And also for those MSPs that just want to reach out to you and just have a chat with you, where do we find you? I’m guessing LinkedIn is the best place.

The website is workspaceaudit.com. You can email me dan@appsedu.com, or dan@workspaceaudit.com, and search for Dan Taylor on LinkedIn, you’ll find me and it’d be great to connect to anyone.

Useful Links

• This podcast is powered by the MSP Marketing Edge, the place where 700+ MSPs generate leads, win clients & achieve freedom.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Dan Taylor, on LinkedIn. And visit his website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

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Welcome to Episode 347 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

How to use webinars to identify the hottest prospects

So have you ever thought of doing webinars to promote your MSP and if you have, what stopped you from actually going ahead with it? Were you worried that perhaps no one would turn up or worse than no one… one person would turn up? Or maybe you were worried about your own performance. Let’s look at why webinars are an amazing way for MSPs to grow their business primarily because most MSPs aren’t doing them.

And let’s just address this right from the start. Yes, there is room in the world for more webinars. You might think there are too many webinars already, but that’s just because you’re inside the channel. Outside the channel, they are getting lots of webinars about the law or carpentry or manufacturing or whatever line of work your prospects are in, but they’re not hearing a lot from MSPs that are pushing technology and talking about the importance of cyber security.

There’s plenty of business out there to be won through webinars, but you’ve just got to approach it the right way.

Most MSPs think the goal of a webinar is all about getting the attendance numbers in. Get 50 people on a webinar, get big conversion rates. That’s not what it’s about at all. The real goal of a webinar is intelligence. It’s telling you something about the leads and the prospects that you’re talking to right now, the people who are in your CRM or who are connected to you on LinkedIn. I mean, even if you just look at who has done something, so who registered for a webinar in the first place?

Actually, you could take that back a step and say, who clicked the email link to have a look at the webinar that I’m promoting? Who then registered for that webinar? Who then showed up for that webinar? Who stayed for the majority of it? Who asked questions? Who booked a meeting or did something afterwards to say thank you? All of this tells you really interesting things about the leads and prospects that you are talking to. And it helps you to kind of sort out the wheat from the chaff. It helps you to show who are the hottest prospects right now and where should you be focusing all of your attention. I mean, the very fact that someone would attend your webinar or even register for your webinar that says something to you.

Now, you might know that with my members, I work either helping them to win B2B business, which is what most MSPs want, more business owners, or I help them to grow their co-managed business, so helping them to reach IT directors. And in both these instances, webinars can be a really, really powerful tool. It can help you to see who through their behaviour alone is worth me talking to. Who’s worth me following up, ringing them, sending more emails to them, sending stuff to them in the post in the mail.

Someone registering for a webinar and turning up for a webinar and being engaged with a webinar, it’s like their hand going up. These are buying signals that people are inadvertently sending to you and it’s great for you because you then know exactly who you should be following up and exactly who you should be talking to over the next couple of weeks. Now there are three, if you like, kind of three tiers of heat after a webinar. By heat, I mean, how hot is a prospect.

So the first tier is where someone has attended and they’ve asked a question or they’ve stayed to the end. So they’ve turned up, they’ve stayed engaged. In fact, if they’ve asked a question, they’re the hottest possible engagement. These are the hottest people and they’re the ones that you should be on right now. Someone who attends a webinar, regardless of the subject, let’s assume it’s just about something technology. It could be cyber security, it could be productivity, it could be about co-managed IT if you’re trying to win co-managed IT contracts.

The fact they attended and stayed and engaged with you, that shows they’re interested. Now, the timing might not be ready for them to actually take the next step or go and buy from you, but I would definitely ring them straight after the webinar. You could ring them and lead with literally, “It was great to see you on the webinar. I loved that question you asked me. Hey, did I answer that question well enough for you or do you have follow-up questions to that?” And in a one-on-one environment, someone is much more likely to start asking follow-up questions and that’s more engagement, right? Now you’re on the phone with them, you can push to have that proper discovery call or even to have that in real life sales meeting. So that’s the first level of heat.

The next level of heat is where someone’s registered and they’ve attended, but they’re passive. They’re a lurker. Lurkers are going to be 90% of people who show up on your webinars. In fact, there’s something called, I think it’s something called the 90/1/9 rule. When you’ve got any kind of performance or show or webinar or even something like a community or something like that, 90% of people who use that are not going to engage with it. They’re lurkers. They just want to turn up for seeing what’s there. 9% of them will engage in some way and 1% of them will take a bit of a leadership position. So 90% will do nothing. 9% will engage and 1% will create new content or ask amazing questions that just contribute, but the vast majority of people are lurkers. So if you can get people to show up to your webinars, that is where most of them are going to be. They are just going to be warm.

Now the next level of hotness down is where they registered, but they didn’t show up. And it’s still worth following these people up because even if someone’s registered that says to you that there is a level of interest there. And actually what you may find is that they may register for two or three webinars and eventually they will show up for one. The thing about a webinar is, and you’ve done this and I’ve definitely done this, is we get to the day where we really intended to go onto the webinar and then 10 minutes before we’re looking at our watch and we’re like, “Oh, I’m really busy today. Do you know what? I’ll watch the recording.” And you will find that for every person who shows up to your live event, two or three or four will watch the recording, which just goes to show that’s true. But obviously the downside of them just watching a recording is there’s no engagement. You don’t know what questions they would’ve asked, etc. etc.

So there’s your three lead heat registers there. And actually with the no shows, I forgot to say that no shows are not dead leads. As I say, send them the recording, watch who watches it. You may even invest in some kind of software which tracks for you, not just who’s opened it, but who’s watched to the end. Someone who opens it and watches 30 seconds are not as hot as someone who’s opened it watched three quarters of the way through, that’s going to be a much hotter prospect.

But all of the purpose of the webinar and the reason that you’re doing it is to find out who’s hot right now so that you can then follow them up. Webinars should not be done just for educating your audience or entertaining them. The webinars should be done because they help you to see who are the hottest people to speak to. So you can put all of your tiny amount of resources onto just those people. So your follow-up sequence should be different for each of those tiers.

So the hottest tier, as I say, they should get all of your attention. I believe if they’re hot, and that means they’ve attended and they’ve engaged with you, personal outreach within 24 hours. Reference something specific from the webinar, their question or something they liked or something like that, or go in just with a question about the webinar. It’s a really easy way to start a conversation with them.

All of the other people, of course, you should send out the recording. You should send them your live calendar. You should say, “Hey, as you know, we help local businesses with this kind of stuff. Here’s my live calendar. The next step is to have a 15-minute one-on-one conversation with me. ” Some of those people will book that conversation when they’re ready to do that. So that’s how I see webinars. I see them as a way of sorting the wheat from the chaff, but what do you actually do a webinar about?

Well, I believe on webinars, topic choice is absolutely everything. So you have to pick a subject, not that you are interested in presenting, but a subject that your ideal prospect is genuinely worried about right now. So as an example, it might be cyber threat topics. I mean, they don’t want the ins and outs of today’s big cyber threat because they don’t really care. Unless it’s something like, CrowdStrike. CrowdStrike, which took down the world, all the planes stopped, didn’t they? So when something like that happens, it’s very much on the mainstream news then it’s of interest to them. But all of the other stuff that’s in front of you today, they don’t really care about it. But you can talk to them about how other business owners like them have been threatened or hit by cyber security problems. If you work with a client and they got breached and you rescued them, perhaps they got breached because they didn’t follow your advice, you can use the anonymised case study of that to educate other business owners. This is not using FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt), this is purely an educational thing.

So cyber security threat topics are great. Compliance deadlines are great because they’re deadlines and in marketing we love deadlines. AI… AI is everything right now, right? Copilot, go and do a Copilot webinar. I know loads of MSPs who are putting on Copilot webinars and they get loads of people registered and loads attend because people want to roll out Copilot. They want to use AI strategically in their business and they don’t know where to start. And you can use this either to sell your general managed services or even some Copilot consulting.

These kind of topics, they pull in warm audiences with a pain, and that’s the key thing. They pull in people with a pain. When someone has a problem to solve or something they want to gain or a need or a want, they’re dramatically more likely to engage with you. And if they engage with you, they’re dramatically more likely to actually go on to do some work with you down the way.

Webinars also give you a reason to reach out to your LinkedIn connections and particularly cold LinkedIn connections to people you don’t really know. You can reach out to them and say things like, “Hey, I thought this would be relevant to you. I’m doing a webinar series. It’s for local business owners. I don’t think you’ve attended one yet. I wonder which of these subjects might be relevant to you. Are you interested in cyber security? I’m doing that in the next couple of weeks, or I’m doing one about Copilot AI next month,” Or whatever the subjects should be.

Now that brings me onto how often should you run webinars? Well, I believe you should run them quarterly at a minimum. You might even choose to do them monthly because you could do the same three webinars but just on a repeating pattern. So it could be productivity, cyber security, AI. So every month you have a new webinar, but actually you’ve only got to do three webinars and just do them on a repeating loop. And the compounding effect of this builds your reputation. You’re trying to be perceived as the local technology expert, right? Well, either locally or in your niche, your vertical. So doing webinars on a regular basis makes you an expert.

There’s something that hasn’t changed in the AI age, which is that experts create content. And yeah, sure AI can do that for you super easily these days. So now you need to bring yourself above just the blog articles and the LinkedIn stuff that everyone is knocking out with AI, and you can tell it’s AI most of the time. You need to write seriously write proper things like a book or you need to present, go and present at live events or go and do webinars on a regular basis.

Experts share what they know and how it helps other people. So if you really want to be seen as a technology expert, doing a quarterly or a monthly webinar is a great way to do this. So there’s a lot to think about there and I know that webinars are scary, but you’ve got to remember this. Webinars are not just a great way for you to find out who’s hot right now and give you an easy in to start a conversation with them, but the MSP who runs webinars on a regular basis is automatically positioned as the authority and most people in most marketplaces want to buy from the authority.

Would you get up at 5am every weekday to grow your MSP?

Would you like to hear my personal confession? I got up at five in the morning every single weekday for 15 years from 2005 to 2020 and not because I’m a masochist of some kind or extreme. It’s not because I don’t sleep well. I sleep very, very well, but it’s because I wanted to work on my business.

And actually 2005 was when I started my first business. I sold that in 2016, which is when I started working with lovely MSPs and I kept that habit going until it stopped in lockdown. And I’ll tell you a bit more about that in a second. But getting up at five in the morning allowed me to have a chunk of time every single day to do the important things that grow your business.

The biggest problem as a business owner is how do you find enough time to work on the business when you’re so busy working in the business.

Now, let me tell you some stuff that kind of made it easy for me to get up at 5am I kind of had a head start because my previous job before I started my business in 2005, I was a breakfast radio presenter so I was getting up. You know the people you hear on the radio in the mornings, who listens to radio, it’s 2026 Paul, but if you do, they all sound a bit up and high and woo and jolly. Often that’s because they’ve already been up for a couple of hours. So my show started at six in the morning, I was up at four in the morning and I was at work by 4:30.

So getting up at four in the morning and quitting that job when I started my own business, getting up at five in the morning actually felt like a lie in. So I will admit, yes, I kind of had it easy, but it was still a hard habit to keep going for all of those years. 15 years I kept that going. Unfortunately, I lost the habit in lockdown. I started sleeping in a bit more. We all did, didn’t we? Because our lifestyles were different, better in some way. Whitehaired Paul today needs his sleep, so now I get up at six and I don’t know if I could ever get up at five again, but the principle behind getting up at 5am every weekday has never changed.

You’ve got to remember this, the only real silver bullet to grow your MSP is taking action. Action. It’s all about the action. Loads of people know what to do. Knowing what to do isn’t the problem anymore. In the age of AI and with people like me and hundreds of other people who know exactly what you need to do to grow your business, knowing what to do is not the problem. The problem is taking action. And whatever the problems right now in your MSP, action can overcome them. You can call it if you like, the will to act. The will to act means you know you’ve got things you need to do, you know that they’re difficult but you are choosing to protect time at the beginning of every working day to get things done.

The choice is the most important thing. There were many mornings that I woke at 5am and it was a struggle. It really was. And there were times when I just pulled my laptop into the bed with me and I worked in my bed at 5am, which sounds a bit sad, but it helped me to grow and sell one business and it’s helped me to grow another business. Now as you’re listening to this, you might be thinking, “Well, 5am is too extreme. I’m going to do 9am or 5pm or I’m going to do two in the morning because I’m a night person. That’s fine, you do whatever works for you.

Me, I’m a morning person. I do my best work in the morning. I get tired by the time I get to the evening. I’ve been like that for years. So for me, I work better in the morning. The one thing I would say is however and wherever you’re thinking of doing this, make sure you do it as a weekly thing. It’s a really easy temptation to just batch everything into one admin day a week. And I know loads of MSPs that do this. They say, rather than doing 60 or 90 minutes every morning, every weekday, I’m just going to do a whole day on Fridays.

But what happens is that when you get to Fridays, the days get completely hijacked by all the crises and the catching up that have happened Monday to Thursday. So you get to Friday and you’re like, “Oh my goodness, what a week, clear up, clear up, clear up. It’s lunchtime, go and have some lunch.” Before you know it, it’s three in the afternoon. You’re exhausted because it’s the end of the week and you end up doing two hours. Whereas if you do an hour a day, every day, it’s five hours, I recommend 90 minutes, that’s seven and a half hours a week versus two or three hours on a tired time on a Friday. Those admin days are way, way too fragile.

So as I say, a better approach is to find and protect 60 to 90 minutes every single weekday to work on the business not in it. And that should be a minimum, not a target. 60 minutes is definitely the minimum. I would say do 90. Once you’ve done 60 minutes of work, the extra 30 minutes doesn’t have the same impact. How can I explain that better? If you do 60 minutes, you need to put time aside, you need to find an environment to work, you need to separate yourself from hassle and clutter and noise. But once you’ve done that 60 minutes to keep going for another 30 minutes gives you a lot more value back than if you were to stop and try and do another 60 minutes the next day.

So 60 to 90 minutes, 90 will be great. Two hours will be even better. And as I say, 5am is too extreme for most, which is fine, I get that, but aim for the same time every day so it becomes a habit. Turning this into a habit is the golden thing. Have you ever read a book? It’s called Atomic Habits by James Clear. It’s an insanely great book. I think it’s the bestselling productivity book in the world right now and it’s all about turning actions, things that we want to achieve, into habits. And this is exactly this.

This was a habit for me of getting up at 5am and working on the business and it was such a core habit that even if I’d been out like on my Christmas party the night before, I still woke up at five the next morning, even if I’d only had four hours sleep. I didn’t always work in that environment, but you get the idea. My brain was so used to waking up at five to do work. One final thing on this is that environment matters. And I mentioned getting away from clutter and hassle and noise. Where you do this work is really important.

So over the years I went to different places depending on the age of my child. So when she was just a baby, I had an office at home. When she became a toddler and she figured out that daddy got up early every day, I got an office away. When I had an office full of staff, I had an office away from my staff. These days I do it partly from home or I’ll go out to a Starbucks or a hotel lobby or something like that. It doesn’t really matter where you do it as long as you can get work done and you’re uninterrupted. No one can call you, no one can text you, certainly no PSA, no Teams emergencies aside. There’s always a once a year emergency, that’s fine. But for the rest of the time, for the other 364 days or however many days, 280 isn’t 280 working days a month, then you must not be interrupted.

And what not to do with this time is easier than what you should do. Let me tell you some stuff you shouldn’t be doing with this time because it’s for working on the business. You shouldn’t be doing emails, you shouldn’t be doing admin, you shouldn’t be doing social media. Basically you shouldn’t be doing anything that’s working in the business. If it’s a job that someone else can do, then you let someone else do it. You as the owner should only do what only you can do. So what you should do with this time, well, actually you can kind of drill it down to three things:

• Action number one is anything that wins you new clients.
• Action number two is anything that gets your existing clients to buy more often.
• Action number three is anything that gets your existing clients to spend more.

So win new clients, get your existing clients to buy more often, get your existing clients to spend more. If you improve those three areas, the profit will follow, I promise you. And once you’ve got more profit, you can invest that back into the business to buy back your time and your life. This is how we grow businesses. We focus on increasing the amount of cash in the business. Then we invest that cash into other people to do work that you necessarily don’t have to do and then you carry on growing the business and eventually more of that cash sits in the business bank account and enters your bank account.

Now one pro tip on this, well, I’ll give you a pro tip and a tool recommendation as well. The first pro tip is at the end of each day, organise the next day’s activity list before you finish. This is a hardcore habit for me, which I still do every day. Even if I’ve got no time, I will take five minutes to stop and organise the next working day. Because it means when I start the next working day, and I don’t work at 5am now, but I do spend three or four hours of every working day working on my business and I know exactly what I need to do because I organise it the day before. I promise you organising it the day before is so much more efficient than on the day. Often you’ll be in the shower in the morning and your brain will go, “Oh, I’d put X Y Z first, but actually it needs to be Z X Y.” So just sleeping on it overnight helps you to reorder that list.

So that’s the first thing. The second thing is let me just give you a tool recommendation. I use a tool called Todoist. I know everyone has their own personal favorite tool. I’ve been the paying user of Todoist for 15 years and I checked just before recording this podcast, I’ve now completed 78,482 tasks over the 15 years. Now, whether you use Todoist or Microsoft To Do or whatever you use, because there are thousands of them out there, use a productivity system that works for you, but make sure you do use some kind of productivity system. If you don’t have organisation and focus, you can’t operate at the level needed to grow your business.

So protect some time every single weekday working only on your business and never working in your business and being highly organised and disciplined. And do you know what? Because you don’t have to do that at 5am, instantly that’s just got easier for you. All you’ve got to do now is do it the first time and have it in your mind you’re going to repeat it. Could you do this tomorrow morning?

Members’ Update

If you’re a member of the MSP Marketing Edge, don’t forget that we are just three days away from new content dropping. So this podcast comes out on the 7th of July 2026 and on Friday, which is the 10th of July, we drop all of the new content into our two portals. And we do this on the 10th of every single month. We have two memberships, there’s a B2B marketing one, which gives you all of the marketing content you need to attract and warm up business owners, and then we have a co-managed marketing one, which has got different content to help you attract and warm up IT directors. And it has to be different content because IT directors think and buy in a completely different way to business owners.

Now, unlike all of our competitors and all of the big vendors that just give you content and dump content and say, “There you go. Off you go. Get on with it.” They don’t really tell you what to do with it – we have a complete system. So we tell you exactly what marketing tasks that you need to do and how you can get other people to do them for you. And by other people, I mean your team or a virtual assistant. We give you new content on the 10th of every month and we give you world-class support. In fact, every day a few of my members jump onto a one-on-one video call with a member of my team and we are chatting with many more of them on email or in our knowledge base at all times.

Do you want a bit of this? If you’re not yet a member, as I say, there are two memberships available – B2B to help you win more business owners as clients, and co-managed to help you win more IT directors. And each one is only available to one MSP per area. Check if yours is available at mspmarketingedge.com/membership.

Before you do any marketing or sales, you MUST get these foundations right

Featured guest: Brian Gillette is the founder of Feel-Good MSP and host of The MSP Sales Podcast. A former MSP VP of Sales, he specialises in an empathy-driven, “FUD-free” sales process that prioritises client trust, authenticity, and peace of mind.

I’ve got one of my friends back on the podcast today and what the two of us do to help MSPs is perfectly complimentary. I help MSPs to generate leads and get those leads onto sales discovery calls, the 15 minute calls, and Brian sort of picks up from there taking MSPs through the sales process until you have a client.

Today we’re going to talk about why MSPs so often fail with their marketing and sales efforts and for many it’s because they just haven’t got the foundations right before they start.

Hi, I’m Brian Gillette. I’m the owner of Feel-Good MSP and the host of the MSP Sales Podcast.

Boom. And Brian Gillette is back on the show. It’s been far too long. Thank you so much for joining here. It’s awesome to be on because just a few months back I guested on your launch of your brand new thing. It’s the biggest thing that you’ve ever launched. It’s called Foundations, and you’re going to tell us a little bit about that later on in this interview. But I did want to get you on today to talk actually about foundations, not the new program that you’ve launched, but actually the sales and marketing foundations that MSPs need to have in place because you and I know we work with enough MSPs to know that most MSPs don’t have those foundations in place. So that’s what we’re going to explore in this interview. Before we do, just tell us who are you, Brian Gillette.

Right. Wow. Where to start? I’m a complex flower, Paul, you know this. I’m a sales guy. I turned an IT sales guy back in 2017 when I discovered managed services by accident because I wanted to get into tech sales, but at the time I didn’t think I was smart enough to be in SaaS sales. So I was like, maybe I’ll do something else in tech. And I feel like tech is the future. And I found managed services and I was like, “Oh, this is awesome. I love selling services.” So anyway, that’s my background, I’ve been in sales for 15 plus years and been an MSP for a decade of that.

And for those of you watching on YouTube and you’ll see how young and beautiful Brian is, you’ll wonder if he actually started those sales, his sales career when he was seven years old. And the answer to that is of course yes. So you started FeelGood MSP, it’s got to be coming up for about five, six years now.

Yeah, five years in July. And your first interview with me was almost exactly four years ago.

Wow. Has it been that long? That’s crazy how quickly the time goes. And so you’ve been working one-on-one and in groups with MSPs and helping them get the sales right. And it’s really interesting, I think when you came along five, six years ago, Jennifer Bleam I think she just started around the same time. There was a lady called Fiona Chalice, I think Fiona still does bits and bobs in the channel, but there wasn’t really anyone else properly doing sales and working with MSPs on the specific techniques and understanding the psychology of the buyer and stuff that today you and I might think is the basics, but I think the majority of MSPs still struggle with this stuff. Why do you think MSPs struggle with getting these basics of their sales and their marketing right?

Well, that’s an interesting question because in some ways the basics, the external basics, I’ll call those the tactics, they can grasp, but there’s this prerequisite to being successful in sales and marketing, which is a level of understanding, the way you put it was the human psychology of it. And I think that’s actually where they get stuck. Because anybody can hire an agency to go make cold calls for you, hire an agency to go make content for you. And those are manifestations, those are tactics that are important in creating leads, but if you don’t actually understand how to connect with another human being on an empathetic level, then their marketing is going to come across as hollow. And frankly, they’re not even going to see it. They’re going to scroll right by it because it can’t penetrate their mental spam filter.

So I think the real foundation that people miss is the psychology of selling. There’s no psychology in IT. They’re different sciences. And so I think in that way, it’s not like one of the romance languages where if you understand one of them, you can kind of fiddle around with the other one. It’s like Chinese and Klingon. They’re just so different that unless you’ve studied the psychology, then a lot of the tactics won’t have any teeth because there’s no human connection in it.

So for the average MSP that’s owner-operator and it’s them plus two, three technicians and an admin person, so they don’t yet have the resources to take on marketing people or take on salespeople, which I think is 80% of the MSP market, by the way. I guess for those people, when you’re fluent in Chinese and actually suddenly you’ve got to talk Klingong, maybe you don’t even know that it’s called Klingon. You know that you can’t quite understand, but you’re not quite sure why. Would that be the right way of looking at it, that sometimes not even knowing you’ve got a problem or you’re speaking a different language is the issue?

Yeah, that’s right. And it’s because the agencies of the world, they are selling a promise prematurely to the MSP audience for a lot of reasons. But if somebody is natural at sales and then they succeed at sales, it’s like if somebody wins the lottery, then you went and say, “How did you do it? And they went, “It works. Trust the system, liquidate your assets, spend it all on tickets, trust me.” That’s awful advice because it’s not up to them that that happened to them. Success happened to that person and they didn’t cause it. But the danger is that somebody wins a lottery and then they take mental credit for picking the winning ticket, picking the winning number.

And sometimes that happens on the agency level where people are even more natural or they’re predisposed to be good at sales and then they don’t understand that they have some baseline understanding of sales that the average person doesn’t start with so they forget to teach those things. So what they do is they teach you the right things in the wrong order. MSPs start with all the end in mind and they go, “Well, I’m doing all the end play sales and marketing things, but nothing’s working.” Because they’ve skipped the whole foundation of it. And so you’re right, they don’t know what they don’t know, but they don’t even know that there was a level one because they were sold that level three is where you start.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So do you think agencies do this inadvertently? Because as you say, I don’t run an agency, you don’t run an agency, but we both know people who do. And some of them are very, very good. Some of them are the other end of the scale and there’s a lot that sits in the middle. My take on agencies has always been that the owner or the person of the most highest level of competence in the business says to the MSP or any business they’re working with, “Oh, you know that thing I’m good at,” which might be SEO or it might be pay-per-click. They say, “Oh, this is the route that you do it, ” because exactly as you’ve just said there, that’s the thing they’ve had the most success with. So they’re not doing it maliciously, but it’s just a case that the only route that they’ve seen is to do X, Y, or Z. And yet often that might not be the right solution for the MSP that they’re working with.

Yeah, that’s right. It’s very rare that you find somebody who just has malintent, like I want to rip people off. Even the people who are true con artists, they are playing mental gymnastics to justify it in their own brain while they’re taking advantage of people. Usually what I have found is it’s the Dunning Kruger effect. The Dunning Kruger effect, for anybody who’s unfamiliar, it’s really interesting and I’m going to butcher it down into two soundbites, which is that when you are incompetent, you aren’t self-aware enough to understand that you’re incompetent. So people get a baseline of education. So somebody takes a writing 101 course and then they go, “I’m Ernest fricking Hemingway. I’m the greatest writer of all time because I got an A in writing 101.” But they don’t understand there’s like a thousand more hours of education they could get, but they don’t know about any of that sphere, that domain of knowledge. They’ve mastered a little domain of knowledge and then they assume competence in the whole area.

And then the inverse happens on the Dunning Kruger effect, which is what happens to our MSPs is the curse of knowledge where you have so much information and knowledge in your head, a lot of it is now subconscious knowledge that you forget what it’s like not to have that knowledge. And so we find that true masters oftentimes have a lower self, they assess themselves lower than people who are brand new in terms of their overall skill level because they know enough to know how much they don’t know, versus a novice doesn’t.

So somebody sees success, they strike gold in one tactic and then they go, “Oh, I’m a marketer now. I can teach marketing.” And then they go, “Well, if I could do SEO, then I could do all these other things.” But that’s not necessarily true. So it’s actually incompetence is the right word. There’s probably a more elegant way of saying that, but it’s when you have a small sliver of information, you assume you know everything and that’s the danger of working with somebody who was successful one time projects that success and says, “I can recreate this. ” But very often they can’t recreate it, which is why we see many agencies with so much churn. And why we talk to so many MSPs, Paul, who have lost so much money trying five or six or seven different things.

Yeah. So it’s really sad because by the time you have that conversation, they’re blaming marketing. Marketing doesn’t work or sales doesn’t work, which of course is nonsense, of course it does. I think maybe what you’re looking for is unconscious and conscious incompetent, whereas there’s four, isn’t it? There’s conscious competent, unconscious competent, you get the idea. Take those two words and put them together in the four variations. So some people are consciously aware of where their skillset ends and many people are not aware. I completely agree with you on that.

Let’s move away from agency bashing, which is a favourite subject when you and I talk to actually getting into those foundations. So if you take that average MSP, and we’ve now established they’re talking Chinese, but the people they want to speak to speak Klingon. The average MSP knows so much about technology. It’s become unconscious. It’s literally embedded in their soul and that means that they’ve forgotten that the average Joe that they speak to doesn’t have that understanding right down to the average person doesn’t really understand the cloud, it’s just data’s out there, they certainly don’t understand ransomware, they really are many, many books behind on AI, let alone pages behind. So with all of that, when you start talking with MSPs and let’s bring in your new foundations program, what are the basics and the fundamentals that the MSPs need to have in place before they start going out and doing the tactical stuff and the strategic stuff to actually generate leads and try and book appointments?

I will say that the thing that nobody wants to hear, but which is the truth, is that 80 to 90, maybe even more than 90% of the ingredients you need, you already know what they are and you might already be cooking with some of them. But the analogy I’ve been using that’s been helpful for me in describing this is that,

MSPs are mistaking sales and marketing for a list of ingredients rather than a recipe.

Now a recipe includes a list of ingredients, but what does it also include? A list of tools that you need, a series of events. The order in which you do the tasks or do the items on a recipe is critical to the success of a dish. If I’m trying to make pasta and I don’t take the noodles out of the packet and I put the whole packet in the boiling water, I’ll get melted plastic water. I won’t get cooked noodles.

That’s what people do is they go, “Well, I need content.” Okay, so they just run out and start posting content every day, but they haven’t even figured out who are you trying to sell to and what do they care about? Well, that’s throwing an unopened pack of noodles in the water. The other thing is the series, again, the series is important. How much time you spend on each item is very important because I got a cold caller, it’s been three weeks, he hasn’t made any money, I fired him. Well, that’s like if you boil your noodles for 12 hours and you cook your beef for five seconds, you’re not going to make a very good dish. The amount of time you invest in each one is important.

The sequence that you do them in is very important and the tools that you use for each one is very important. You can’t cut vegetables with a crayon. You have to have a knife. So the mistake people make is that they fixate on one guru or one thought leader who is very good at the chopping part and then they buy a $10,000 knife thinking, now I can make this dish. But in reality, they just overinvested in one tool. And what they need to do is zoom out. Sales and marketing is not magical. It’s make yourself known, agitate or create a problem, introduce a solution, build enough trust where they buy it and then tender payment. That’s all you have to do. There’s nothing new that I can teach you that you’ve never heard of. There’s not some new social media platform that you don’t know about yet that all of your prospects are hanging out on and there’s no MSPs there. That doesn’t exist.

But if you focus on the true fundamentals, the true foundations of get my list of ingredients, my list of tools, and then start with “Step one, do this, step two, do this, step three, wait 14 days, then do this.” Then we have found that when people simplify it, and don’t get cute, don’t try to build, don’t try to vibe code a CRM that’s rocket powered. You don’t need that. You could do this on Excel. You could make a $2 million a year business using Excel. You shouldn’t, but you could. You know what I mean? A poor workman uses this tools where we have no shortage of idioms here, but if you’re focusing on, I just need more and more tools, more and more tools, it’s because you’re not executing the very simple steps.

So the simple first step to the recipe is you need to build an ideal customer profile. And for us, that includes understand what is your value proposition to that person? What is your differentiator to that person in a way that they care about, not like we’re a Kaseya shop versus a Connectwise shop, obviously they don’t care. Response times is not different. There’s nothing different about saying you’re fast. There’s nothing different about saying you don’t use tech talk. There’s nothing different about saying that you actually care. There’s nothing different about saying that you’re local. Because every MSP says those four things. So if you’re using that to make yourself different, well, I’ve just given you your next task. You need to go and ask yourself, why am I actually different? Why am I actually better? But when you’ve done that homework, which by the way, we have a whole agent for that does it for you now in 30 minutes. It used to take us five weeks.

When you’ve done that homework, all of a sudden the outbound messages they’re going to resonate with someone because you wrote it to someone, not to everyone. And then those people are more likely to reply. And then when they reply, you’ve been trained on what you’re supposed to say back, and you know what the next action they should take is, and you know how to sell that next action to them, not sell them the contract, but sell them the next step in the process and make them understand why they need this discovery call, why they need the onsite consultation, why they need to sit through a presentation with you. And when you can break it down into those pieces, you realise that it’s just like building a server, it’s just like migrating emails. It’s anything that you once didn’t know how to do, but now you have an SOP for it and you could do it in your sleep because you’ve done it so many times.

I love that. And I think it’s the breaking it down into a simple, let’s not call it simple because there’s still a lot of complexity in that, but it’s a list of things. In fact, your recipe analogy is perfect. If we’re going to pick one of those, let’s pick being the chef in the kitchen. And you’re right, it’s not just about having the ingredients, it’s knowing what to do with them and getting the timing right. I think that’s absolutely beautiful.

So let’s finish off, just tell us actually what’s in Foundation. What inspired you to put this new program together? And I say this, it’s a bit of a loaded question because I’ve been following along with you with this over the last few months and I know what you’ve put together is insane. So what inspired you to put it together? What actually is it and how do we access it?

Yeah. Well, the answer, the first one why I made it was that we have another program which is pretty intensive. It’s a bigger financial investment. It’s a much bigger time investment. And I have found that that’s the best way to have success, of course, invest a lot of time and money into something. But really the majority of MSPs, they don’t have five to seven hours a week to spend with me. They just don’t have it. They need 15 to 25 minutes a day and they need to be able to do it at 8pm or 4am not when I’m on a live call. They need to do it when they have time to do it. So we’ve been setting out to answer that question for the last two years. How do we make something that’s available just in time for the MSP but that doesn’t compromise the integrity of the education?

Because I could just turn all my videos into TikToks and make them faster, but you’re not going to learn anything. So it was about how do we reduce it down to the simplest stuff you have to know so that in 15 minutes a day you could learn in as little as 90 days how to open, how to qualify and how to close and how to go find that business. So it’s training for sure. We have most of my learning management system is included in Foundations. I’ve been making these courses for five years. I don’t know how many hours of education it is, but it’s quite a bit, all broken down into like 12 to 20 minute videos.

And then it’s the tools. So we now offer a full CRM. It’s designed for outbound deal generation. It’s not GoHighLevel. It’s a really low-fi, low learning curve, but complete CRM. It’s a well-established CRM called Contact Science that partner with us to make a fully integrated white labeled version of it. We then help you implement the CRM. We help you migrate your data into the CRM. There’s handholding two calls a week with the president of the CRM named Melanie McCaleb, who will literally show you how to use it as many times as you want.

And then in addition to that, we have additional tools like I mentioned the ICP agent. We have 500 plus hours of coaching calls run by me, which nobody else in the world has that much specific training data. So we are now looking to ways to augment the MSP’s time and give them as much leverage as possible. So an MSP could spend 30 minutes and get five weeks of work done. That’s what we want to set out to do. So we’re building these new agents one a quarter that is designed to integrate seamlessly into the sales execution workflow.

The first one is the ICP agent. It interviews you, it’s trained on 50 hours of calls of me interviewing people building ICPs and then it will build you a really exhaustive, you’ve seen Paul, the document that it makes it’s pretty thorough and we’re working on a bunch of new agents now and all sorts of different things to help you write LinkedIn posts and as many things as we can. We’re looking for the, what’s the highest friction point that’s stopping somebody from executing outbound and getting leads? Okay, let’s make a tool so that it will do that for them or do that much faster. It’s essentially training and tools and community. That’s what Foundations is.

I love it. And yeah, that ICP document, you sent a sample one to me a few months back and I’m like, wow, how many humans have sat there and put this together? And of course the answer is none, but the AI has been trained on, as you say, hundreds and hundreds of hours of your work. So I’m looking forward to seeing these new tools as you roll them out. Just let’s finish off then, Brian. Where do we go to find out about foundations?

So feelgoodmsp.com/foundations. You can learn all about it. We now have all of our pricing transparent on all of our programs. Of course, we still have the accelerator for somebody who wants coaching. They want to interact with me three to four times a week on live Zoom calls. That’s of course still available. But if you’re a six-figure MSP, you’re the owner and you need to get yourself $10 – 20,000 new MRR in the next six months just to get yourself some breathing room or hire your first SDR or whatever the case is. You are who we designed this for. You can learn all about it there and get started. It’s only a 90-day commitment to begin. 

Useful Links

• This podcast is powered by the MSP Marketing Edge, the place where 700+ MSPs generate leads, win clients & achieve freedom.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Brian Gillette, on LinkedIn. And visit the feelgoodmsp.com/foundations website.
• Mentioned book: Atomic Habits by James Clear.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

The post MSPs: Use Webinars To Find Hot Prospects appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 345 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

The 4 types of CRMs used by MSPs (and which is best)

One of the most common questions I get from MSPs when they start thinking seriously about their marketing is, “Which CRM should we use?” And on the surface that sounds like a really simple question, but actually the more you dig into it, the more complicated it becomes. Isn’t that always the way? Because this isn’t really a question about software. It’s a question about frustration.

What MSPs are really asking when they ask me about CRMs is, “Paul, where do I put all my prospect data? How do I build a pipeline that I can actually see? How do I know who to follow up and when to follow them up? How do I stop things falling through the cracks? And why is all of this giving me such a headache?” Those are all the kind of questions that MSPs really have.

So before I walk you through the four types of CRMs that MSPs tend to use, let me say something to you. It may be slightly controversial.

I believe there isn’t one best CRM for MSPs. There’s only the best CRM for how your MSP markets and sells itself.

And those are two very different things. And the reason so many MSPs end up with the wrong tool or with a perfectly good tool that they never really properly use, is that they chose the software before they defined the marketing process and that’s backwards. The tool should serve the process never the other way around. Let’s look at the four types of CRM based on the four types of MSP.

The first type is what I’d like to call PSA led MSPs. So these are MSPs who basically live inside their PSA. ConnectWise, Autotask, HaloPSA, Synchro, Atera, Kaseya, whatever it is. Their agreements are in there and this may be you. The billing’s in there, your tickets are in there. So for you, the idea of keeping your sales activity in exactly the same place feels logical and tidy. And actually if your sales are largely driven by referrals or renewals and everything’s kind of straightforward and simple, then this can work perfectly well. If you’re not trying to build a sophisticated marketing engine but you just want visibility on leads without having more software, then that might be the right answer for you.

But a big word of caution. When a PSA vendor says their platform has a marketing module, that’s a little bit like a Swiss Army knife saying that it has a saw. So technically, yes, it’s true, but it’s not what you would choose if sawing things was something that you did every day. You can’t use that tiny little knife every day on a tree, can you? It’s just for the odd job. And it’s exactly the same with your PSA. Most marketing modules in PSAs, and I haven’t looked at all of them, so if I’m wrong on this, please email me and let me know. But most marketing modules in PSAs are not really up to the job of actually doing good comprehensive marketing every day.

The second type then is marketing-led MSPs. And these tend to be MSPs that don’t have enough leads and know that marketing has to be their principle growth activity. Again, you may be in this category right now. So they want to run campaigns, they want to publish content consistently, they want to capture leads through forms, and importantly, and this is the right thing to do, is use automation to follow up all of these leads.

So if that is you, the platforms to look at are things like HubSpot, making sure that you’ve got the marketing hub, HubSpot’s broken into lots of different hubs, so you’ll need the marketing hub. Or you could look at ActiveCampaign or look at Zoho One, or there are more budget-friendly ones like MailChimp or MailerLite. Or if you belong to The Tech Tribe, then you get Growably, which is built on something called GoHighLevel. And actually GoHighLevel itself is also worth looking at, although it’s cheaper to actually join The Tech Tribe and get Growably than it is to buy GoHighLevel independently.

So all of these platforms I was just talking about here, they combine contact management with automation and lead scoring and campaign reporting. And they all do those at various different levels. But here’s the thing, all of those tools I just mentioned there, they only make sense if you’re genuinely prepared to use those capabilities because some of those platforms are not cheap. I’m looking at you, HubSpot. We’re with HubSpot, I love it, but it’s $1,700 a month for all of the things that we use. It’s a massive, massive bill every single month and all of them come with a steep learning curve. I’m looking at you, HubSpot. HubSpot is perhaps the steepest learning curve of any software ever, but it’s worth it. And it took us pretty much a year to migrate our entire setup from Keap over to HubSpot. I don’t recommend Keap anymore. I do recommend HubSpot, even though we went through months and months of pain, it was worth it.

The third type of MSP is a sales-led MSP. So these are MSPs that are doing a lot of sales activity. They maybe even have or probably do have a dedicated salesperson, or maybe there’s a couple of partners within the business and one of the partners focuses all of their time on marketing and sales. And in this instance, the MSP wants clarity on the pipeline above anything else. So they want defined stages, they want forecasting, they want some accountability for follow-up. Actually, that’s more of a problem if you’ve got two or more salespeople and often they will want a dashboard as well that they can look at every day and understand what’s going on.

So if you’ve ever said out loud, “I genuinely don’t know what deals we’ve got on right now,” then you’re probably in this group. And in that instance, I would recommend something like Pipedrive, that’s a great choice if you’re in this group. HubSpot again is good for this, it has something called sales hub, which is like the functionality you switch on in HubSpot. Again, Zoho is worth looking at, Zoho CRM. Freshsales and something called Close. I’ve not looked at those two myself but I’ve heard other MSPs talk about them. So they’re all worth looking at.

And these systems are often simpler than the big enterprise platforms that we’re actually just about to talk about, but they tend to be far more structured than a PSA add-on. They have a different functionality to the pure marketing ones. So if you go get something like HubSpot, you can do the marketing hub, you can do the sales hub and you get both of those in the same software and they integrate, which is great, but obviously you pay the price for that in terms of cash. Whereas if you go something like MailChimp as your marketing tool, it doesn’t typically have the sales thing. So that’s typically where you have these separate tools. Ultimately, to have both tools, a really good marketing tool and a really good sales tool both in one CRM, you’re going to pay for that functionality. So these sales tools I was just talking about there are built more for sales clarity than for actual marketing ability, although they do all overlap in some kind of way.

And then we come onto the fourth type, which I’m going to briefly mention for completeness, but it’s very, very few MSPs. Certainly the kind of people who listen to this podcast or watch on YouTube are probably not in this group, and that’s enterprise-led MSPs. So for these businesses, these MSPs, we’re talking Salesforce, Microsoft’s Dynamics 365, NetSuite CRM, they’re very powerful, they’re very expensive. You think $1,700 is a lot money, Paul, Salesforce you probably can’t even switch it on for less than a few thousand dollars a month because these are enterprise solutions and they demand a level of process maturity and some level of internal ownership that most MSPs just don’t have. Certainly not the kind of MSPs that this podcast and this YouTube channel is aimed at.

So if you don’t have those clearly defined sales stages or solid reporting requirements, if you don’t have someone internally who can spend half of their working time maintaining data quality and just hygiene of your CRM, then these systems are not for you because they become very expensive, very over complicated. They’re kind of just big, expensive, over complicated databases more than anything. And you don’t want that. You want your CRM, whatever you choose, whether it’s down at the free to get going end of the market, like Mailchimp or at the very expensive but very good tool set end, like HubSpot, you want them to be revenue driving assets. That’s what they’re supposed to be.

So to pull all of this together, before you ask yourself which software should I use, which CRM should I pick? A much more important question first is: How do you generate leads? How do you turn those leads into warm prospects? How do you convert them into clients? If you know the answers to those three questions really clearly, then the right CRM quickly becomes a pretty obvious choice. But if you can’t answer those three questions, no software in the world is going to rescue you. The process always must come first.

The most important metrics to focus on (not tickets)

Have you had a chance to listen to or watch last week’s podcast? Because back then I said that every MSP needs to think of itself as a media company and a marketing company rather than a technical company. I’m not going to go into that again, you can just visit episode 344 or we have them all on every podcast channel. But today I want to take that one step further…

Once you accept that marketing is a core function of your business and not just something you kind of get round to when things are quiet, the next question becomes – How do you know whether or not your marketing is working? And this is where a lot of MSPs go wrong, not because they don’t measure things because they do. MSPs are actually really good at measuring things. Your PSA is full of data, isn’t it? You’ve got ticket volumes and response times and resolution times and SLA compliance and all of that kind of stuff. I know that stuff gets tracked and reported and reviewed, which is all great.

Those metrics, the ones I was just talking about, they matter for running a good service operation. But the problem is none of those numbers tell you whether or not your business is growing, or whether your marketing is working, or whether or not you’re lining up winning new clients in the next month or the next quarter. They just tell you how well you’re looking after the clients you already have. And yes, yes, I know that’s important, but it’s only half the picture. And for many MSPs, it’s actually the only half they’re ever looking at.

So when I ask an MSP owner how their marketing is performing, the answers I usually get are things like, “Oh yeah, absolutely, our LinkedIn following has gone up, or we’re getting more website visitors, or we had a 22% open rate on our last email.” And those things are not meaningless. Audience size and engagement are indicators of potential future growth, but they are very far from the numbers that matter the most. Because you can have 10,000 followers or connections on LinkedIn and win zero clients, but you can also have 200 connections on LinkedIn and be having three sales meetings a month.

Followers and connections don’t pay your bills. New clients absolutely do. So what should you be tracking?

Well, you might be surprised by this because I believe that when it comes down to it, you should only really be tracking two numbers, just two. But if you can get these two numbers right, everything else in your marketing will just make sense, it will just contribute to new clients.

So the first thing to track is something called MQLs, which stands for marketing qualified leads. An MQL is someone who’s engaged with your marketing in a meaningful way, which suggests that they might one day be ready to buy. I mean, it’s a big might, but it’s kind of a level of engagement. So not just someone who likes a post or opens an email, but someone who has taken a more deliberate action. Maybe they’ve downloaded something or they’ve replied to an email or they’ve clicked through to your website from your LinkedIn content and they’ve spent a little bit of time on it. All of these things are good measures of engagement. Maybe they’ve responded to a direct message or they’ve asked you a question or they’ve just generally engaged in a way which signals something beyond passive consumption. They’re being proactive, they’re warming up, they’re not ready to buy yet, but they’re moving in that right direction. So that’s the first thing to track.

The second thing to track is SQLs. So we had marketing qualified leads. SQLs are sales qualified leads and an SQL is someone who is actively considering switching MSP. They’ve probably had a discovery call or some kind of level of conversation with you. They’ve asked about pricing or services and you can see that they’re asking the right kind of questions and they’ve agreed to maybe a Zoom or a Teams meeting or something like that. So if they’re not there right now, they are right on the edge of a live buying conversation. Does that make sense?

Now here’s why these two numbers are so important. Together they give you a clear picture of whether or not your marketing machine is functioning properly. So if your MQL number is growing month on month, then your marketing is working. You’re pulling people into your world, you’re warming them up and they’re engaging with you. If your SQL number is growing, then your conversion process is working. You’re turning warm relationships into real opportunities. And if either of those two numbers, the MQLs and the SQLs is flat or worse, it’s falling, then actually you know where the problem is.

So you’re either not generating enough warm interest and that’s a marketing problem or you’re not converting that interest into conversations, which is a sales process problem. Two very different problems with two very different solutions. And you can only really see the difference if you’re tracking both of those numbers. And actually, as we said, most MSPs aren’t tracking either of those numbers. So if you’re still watching the vanity metrics like follow accounts, open rates, you’re feeling good or bad based on how many people are connected to you on LinkedIn, then unfortunately you have no idea whether your marketing is generating actual commercial momentum or not.

What I’d encourage you to do if you haven’t got a CRM that does this for you, well, we were just talking about CRMs, weren’t we? Go and get one of those, or if it comes to it, just set up a simple spreadsheet. And at the end of each week, write down how many MQLs you added that week, how many people took a meaningful step forward and how many SQLs are currently active, how many live buying conversations do you have going on right now?

And that’s it. Those are only really the two numbers you need to track. You could track all of the others because they feed into them, but if you just tracked your MQLs and your SQLs every single week, that’s going to make a difference because I know it’s a cliche, but it’s true that what gets measured gets managed. So if you’re serious about consistently growing your MSP, those are the two numbers that will tell you what’s actually working and what’s not working right now.

Members’ Update

If you’re already an MSP Marketing Edge member, you probably know that one of the most used parts of our service is our world-class support. Unlike all of the other content suppliers out there that just give you content and leave you with it, we give you three things. We give you, first of all, a system for your marketing. Then we give you all of the marketing content you need to run that marketing system. And then thirdly, we give you what we believe to be the world’s greatest support while you’re implementing that marketing. Those three things have been designed to fit together to help you get results.

We’ve got our very lively members only Facebook group. We have our weekly events and member calls. And of course you can book a one-to-one call with a member of my team at any point. In fact, we do have members who will have two or three one-to-one calls a month and that’s great. That’s a service that’s there for all of our members. Anything that we can do to help you implement your marketing and get more of those marketing qualified leads we were just talking about, and the sales qualified leads, that’s what we’re here to do and how we can help you.

If you’re not yet a member we now have two memberships available. We have B2B marketing, which helps you to win more business owners as clients, and we have co-managed IT marketing, which helps you win more IT directors as clients. We only work with one MSP per area for each of those memberships and you can see if your area is available or not by entering your postcode or zip code at mspmarketingedge.com/membership.

How MSPs can actually make money from AI

Featured guest: Jennifer Bleam is the founder of MSP Sales Revolution and the creator of the AI Monetization Launchpad . She is a best selling author and long-time MSP industry advisor who helps MSPs confidently lead high-value business conversations with their clients.

Today her work focuses on helping MSPs navigate the emerging AI opportunity. Not by turning them into AI developers, but by teaching them how to guide the conversation, uncover opportunities, and build real AI revenue.

We’re all talking about AI every single day because of course we’re all using AI all day, every day, right? I certainly am, and I wouldn’t be surprised if you are as well. But here’s the one conversation that we’re not having about AI. How are you making money from it? As an MSP, you’re very well positioned to make a lot of money helping your clients to get their heads around AI. You may only be two or three pages ahead of them in the book of AI, but you’re two or three pages ahead of them, and that’s a significant advantage for something that’s moving faster than anything’s ever moved before. My special guest today is an expert at helping MSPs make money from AI and here’s her advice.

Hi there. I’m Jennifer Bleam and I’m the Sales Sherpa. I help MSPs get more revenue usually from their existing clients.

And Jennifer’s back on the show. Welcome back, Jennifer, it’s been too long. I can’t remember when you were last with us, but you’re one of those people that should be on the show every single year because you always deliver so much value. And I’ve been following you on LinkedIn over the last few months, stalking, let’s call it what it is, I’ve been stalking you on LinkedIn and you are starting to answer the questions that MSPs are asking me, which is really interesting. And the questions that they’re asking me, which I can’t yet answer, which is why I wanted to get you back on the show, everyone is talking about AI every single minute of the day, and this is the question that MSPs ask is, “How do I turn AI into revenue?” And you put out a post three, four months ago, I can’t remember what it was, but it piqued my interest of like, hmm, Jennifer’s a smart cookie and she seems to have figured out that answer of how does an MSP turn AI into revenue. So tell us what you’ve been doing over the last year, because I know you’ve gone really, really hard into that area.

I have, and that’s exactly the question I’m asking. There’s all this AI buzz and kind of the first step is I want to use AI inside of my own MSP, whether it’s for ticket triage or whatever, all the things, there’s a lot of different ways to use AI. And then that seems to whet the MSP’s appetites and then they’re like, “Wait a second, this really is magical. Maybe it’s not going to solve every problem in the world, but it’s in the same box as technology, like my clients see me as the technologist or the trusted advisor. How can I make money from AI? Am I selling the tools? Am I having conversations? What does that look like?” And so you’re right, I went all in on AI, I actually killed my core offering, it is gone. I no longer do anything other than help my MSP clients have AI conversations, discovery, and then monetise AI. So that’s what I’m all about.

Amazing. So without asking you to give away all of your secret sauce, because I know you do a lot of work with MSPs directly, give us an idea of some of the areas, because I guess we could guess some, couldn’t we, such as helping businesses to implement AI or helping them roll out Copilot or whatsoever. But are there many more areas that MSPs just haven’t thought of?

Yeah, there really are many areas. So Copilot is usually where most MSPs start. It’s very normal, I take a license, I mark it up a bit, maybe I give some expertise and expert advice on which level they should go with. Sometimes they do some kind of access control or database management. This person should only have access to this data silo, etc. But it is much broader than that. And it almost shifts into a consulting conversation. So it is everything from, would you like me to add AI to our quarterly business reviews? And I’m speaking that way to an MSP. You’re going to message it a little bit different to your clients, but literally that is valuable to the small business owner because as an MSP, most of the MSPs I’m talking to are a bit overwhelmed also.

As of the time of this recording, I have a Claude Cowork license and I have one use case for it and I feel like that is barely starting and I’m a bit overwhelmed. Even though I’ve been in the AI world, I’m great with Gems and custom GPTs and Perplexity and like you named the LLM, I’ve probably used it. But then when I shift into Agentic, it’s a little overwhelming. I’m a little concerned about security.

If I’m overwhelmed, if the MSP is overwhelmed, so then is the small business owner and more so.

And for that reason, that strategic advisor or the QBR conversation or TBR conversation, that’s a piece of it. So that’s one revenue stream. And then you asked for kind of commonalities. I’ll give you one that we’re seeing and it’s what I call the hub and spoke methodology. This is really for those companies that have 50 to 100 employees and up. And when we get into companies that large, what we are finding is they have multiple disparate software tools. So I just did some consulting with a large security vendor and they had, let’s call it Salesforce is the hub. They then have, maybe it’s Pipedrive is a spoke where their sales pipeline lives in that tool, and maybe they have a finance tool, and maybe they have a how close are they to becoming the top tier client?

And so all of a sudden, I’m telling you every single phone call I learned about three new software tools that had data lakes or maybe data puddles is a better way to put it because they were all in these disparate tools and they had so much data they were sitting on, so much intelligence they were sitting on, but for even a salesperson to make a decision, they would have had to log into 12 tools, which means they weren’t doing it. So there was literally data sitting there not being used. And we’re seeing that same exact thing inside of a small and medium sized businesses where they have multiple data lakes and we need to pull, not necessarily that we’re pulling all of the data from one into Salesforce or whatever we choose as the hub. It’s an intelligent, like a matching. Which pieces do we really need and how do we get those into the single hub and what is that single hub? And then you can get into security provisions. But once you’ve got the data in there, you can start to do all kinds of fun queries. And right now you can’t do queries if they’re in disparate places. So that’s one of the commonalities we’re seeing is just that hub and spoke around data.

I love the concept of the hub and spoke, and it does make sense. People are going to look back in 10 years time, I was going to say 10, 20, 30 years time, five years time and say, wow, do you remember when people used to have their data in lots of different applications? So what’s normal to us today is going to be almost like Victorian to people just five years from now.

Do you remember when people used to have a server in the closet? So many companies that do, but most of them don’t have a server in the closet. And our children and grandchildren are going to be like, “What’s a server?” Just like, “What’s a cassette tape?” So you’re 100% right.

Well, granddad, did you use to book your own restaurant tables? Because of course within a few years, we won’t be booking our own restaurant tables. Now on that note, I must declare when we are recording this interview, which is right at the end of March 2026. This won’t go out on the podcast till I think it’s like June. And the reason I’m doing that is because you mentioned Claude Cowork earlier, Codex as well, I think. You mentioned a couple of things. And it’s like all the tools of today at the end of March, by the time we get to June, it could be like Claude is the one, isn’t it?

I’m using Claude so much. I’m gently experimenting with Cowork, with caution. I’ve discovered the other day that the Claude browser plugin can operate my stuff in my browser and I’ve set it to keep asking me permission, but I’m watching it scroll through a hundred of my LinkedIn newsletters to analyse it. And I’m like, “Whoa.” And it’s slow and it’s clunky and it forgot all the data when I shut the plugin. But it’s like, if you can do that now, what can it do in 12 months? So that caveat, that’s the word I was looking for. The caveat is we are recording this at the end of March because by June Perplexity might have come up with Comet seven or something.

Which actually leads onto my next question, you’re doing this full time now, I’m a dabbler, so I watch a lot of YouTube videos and I haven’t got around to downloading OpenClaw yet because I’m a bit scared of it. I’ve got the Mac Mini, but I never actually downloaded the software. So I’m a dabbler, you do it full-time, but an MSP has other things to do like keeping their clients secure, actual what you get paid to do, projects, managing stuff. Do you see a lot of fear from MSPs that it’s too easy for them to fall behind when they’re setting themselves up as the font of AI knowledge for the small business clients they’re looking after?

Yeah. So I hear two different fears. I hear the fear of falling behind and there’s some technology ways that you can stay up. You could set up an RSS feed. So I have an RSS feed that goes into mymonday.com and then once a week I just scan through all of the headlines and usually the headline I can eliminate two thirds of the headlines and the ones that are interesting I can double click on. And so that is one way to stay up to speed. So I do hear that a little bit.

The bigger fear is what happens if my clients are doing this without me? So that introduces shadow AI. Some MSPs are a bit leery to bring up AI because they don’t feel expert enough. And so then we introduce shadow AI. Another organisation comes in, deploys whatever AI solution it is. It almost doesn’t matter what they deploy. If they’re not an MSP or an MSSP, they probably are not thinking about security like they should. And so most MSPs are torn right now, “I know I need to be bringing this up, but I don’t feel like I know enough.” So it’s less about falling behind and more like an identity shift. If you’re using a large language model, if you’re using Copilot, if you’re either vibe coding or you understand the concept of automations and agents and you could maybe list one or two use cases, you are way ahead of your clients, way ahead, and that’s enough to guide the conversation.

Yeah. I guess there’s a saying in the expert world, which you and I have both heard because we position ourselves as experts at what we do and there’s nothing wrong with that. I always recommend MSPs position themselves as experts exactly as you say. But the common thing is, and this isn’t such a problem for people like you and me who have got a few years under our belt, but that whole thing of be careful not to listen to the expert who’s only one page ahead of you in the book.

I guess which obviously you and I, we’ve read all the books and we’ve lived that life for 10, 20, 30 years, whatever is the case. I guess the issue with AI is everyone is only one page ahead of everyone else because the book is being written as we speak and actually we’re still on page one of chapter one of the book.

Yes, I call that the intelligence tsunami because a lot of people will say AI is growing exponentially and it is, but really what we have is that large language models are growing exponentially and the ability to create video content is growing exponentially and agents are growing exponentially and tools are growing exponentially and then we stack them all on top of themselves and it’s no longer exponential growth. I don’t know what the word is. I don’t think we have a word in the English language to say exponential cubed. I don’t know what that word is. And so I call it the intelligence tsunami. If you stand on the shore and just watch it is going to be devastating. If you’re brave enough to get on the surfboard, you’re going to really have a significant advantage over the poor people that are on the sand.

Although I guess the other way of looking at it is that by knowing that there’s that tsunami is coming, you can help those people move to safety and that’s where the MSPs help their clients, which I love. Okay, so two final questions and then we’ll just talk about what you’re actually doing to help MSPs right now make money out of AI. So it’s kind of the same question, but with a negative and a positive slant. I try very hard to make everything positive on this podcast because I try to create the podcast I want to listen to. I have to tell you, my girlfriend caught me listening to my own podcast the other day. I was in the car listening to this very podcast. She kind of got in and she said, “Are you listening to yourself?” I’m like, “No, no, not at all.”

Anyway, the question is about the future. And it’s a bit of a crystal ball thing because no one knows and everything moves so fast. It’s crazy. So I read a blog by a guy called Ed Zitron. I don’t know if you’ve come across him, Jennifer. So he writes a very negative blog. It’s called Where’s Your Ed At? And it’s very negative, but he would call it realistic in that he writes about the economics of AI. I’m glad you’re writing that down now. You’re going to love this. He writes the longest blog articles. They’re all like 10,000 words. But he writes about the economics of AI. And I forget the numbers, but for example, let’s not name names, but your big players are basically spending $5 to $10 to win a dollar. And so all of them need billions and billions of dollars of funding every year. And he compares that to every other economic cycle of in human history and it’s unparalleled and it obviously can’t continue like that forever. So if I was interviewing Ed Zitron, which makes me think actually I should, if I was interviewing him, he’d have a very negative opinion of AI and that whatever AI can or can’t do, its current model isn’t sustainable. I’m paying what, $22 a month for ChatGPT, maybe the same again for Claude, I’m paying for Gemini and actually I’m probably burning several hundred dollars worth of compute and tokens and all that stuff in the back end. That can’t go on forever. So I guess what I’m asking from you is, and I know you’re a natural positive optimist, so what do you see as the optimistic next couple of years for AI? And do you see a potential downside of where actually one day we’re going to have to pay the $300 a month for exactly what we’re doing now?

Okay. So let me answer this twofold. First of all, I literally just skimmed an article this morning that said the commoditised $20 a month model is going to have to die because we’re shifting from $20 a month to $200 a month in terms of agentic token spend. Sometimes it’s $100 a day is sometimes what I’m hearing. And so it breaks the mental model of, “I’ll just stack up these different tools for 20 bucks a month.” So I don’t think you or he are that far off base. I do think the models will need to shift, but I think there will be a gradual shifting because I think what we will see first is pretty significant consolidation. And I think we’re already seeing the beginnings of that because if we think about, let’s say maybe Q3, Q4 of 2025, every new release was pretty massive.

We went from micro context windows to mac huge context windows. Now it feels like we are still seeing, outside looking in, feels a little bit like one upmanship, Copilot releases something and then ChatGPT releases something, then Perplexity, but the releases from ChatGPT today to ChatGPT in three weeks are much, much smaller. And that’s how it is with anything. As you move up the scale and you’re much better and better and better, you can’t change it by 50%. You can’t get 50% better because you’re already nearly perfect. And so we’re seeing that already.

And so what that means is that in a year, give or take a bit, it’s going to be a pretty flat playing field. And what it will become is that maybe ChatGPT and Claude, let’s just compare those two. They have different context windows, they have different writing styles, but broadly they do the same thing or the one that does more, which at the time of this recording is probably Claude, will either buy up and close down ChatGPT, OpenAI. We’re going to see consolidation. I mean, we’ve seen Microsoft do that historically where they buy up a really tiny competitor and then they just close the doors. And I think we’re going to see similar things there. So consolidation first and then probably the shift from small dollars to larger dollars monthly.

Yeah. And definitely towards Agentic. And I think we can all see that that’s when AI gets really useful, when it can actually do stuff for us.

Yeah, totally agree.

Yeah. Okay. Thank you. Jennifer, this has been amazing. I’m conscious that this interview is already out of date. Literally, you and I have just finished recording it. It’s already out of date. So we need to get you back on. Maybe we should just get you back on every week just to talk about AI. So give us a brief overview of what do you actually do then to help MSPs make money from AI and what’s the best way to get in touch with you?

Yeah, for sure. So I have an eight week program called the AI Monetization Launchpad and my MSPs come in with no packaging, no pricing, no offer, no sales process, no outward facing lead magnets or branding. And when they come out at the end of eight weeks, they have all of those things. They have a package, they have a price. More importantly, they have pipeline. They have real valid AI opportunities in the pipe, not usually closed yet because eight weeks is a very short amount of time to start a deal and then close it, especially in this world. And then I also have a program ongoing where people can get lead magnet packets and webinar packets and help with closing. It is all around creating AI opportunities and revenue. Those are my two key offers right now. And you can go out to my website, mspsalesrevolution.com/aioffers to get 10 AI offers that MSPs should be selling right now and then you can poke around. I’ve got blog posts and videos and all kinds of content out there to help.

Useful Links

• This podcast is powered by the MSP Marketing Edge, the place where 700+ MSPs generate leads, win clients & achieve freedom.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Jennifer Bleam, on LinkedIn. And visit the MSP Sales Revolution website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

The post The 4 types of CRMs used by MSPs (and which is best) appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 334 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

The one marketing habit every MSP should obsess over

If there’s one marketing habit that I wish every MSP would build into their regular rhythm, it’s this. Collect social proof. And not casually, I mean obsessively because nothing builds trust faster than a client telling the world that they’re genuinely happy with you. You can talk about your service all day long, but the moment someone else says, “These people are amazing,” the whole dynamic changes. So let’s talk about why social proof works, the three types that every MSP should be collecting and how to do it in a way that never ever feels awkward or forced.

To understand why social proof is so powerful, you need to look at a bit of basic human psychology. Back when humans were still figuring out fire and trying not to get eaten by dinosaurs, survival depended on sticking with the group. If the herd ran, you ran. And that instinct is still baked very deep within our brains and our gut reactions. Even though we like to think of ourselves as rational, independent, modern decision makers…

People are still heavily influenced at an emotional level by what other people are doing. That’s why testimonials, reviews and case studies work so well.

They quietly say, “Hey, people just like you trust a business like this and that feels safe.” So as I said, there are three types of social proof that every MSP should be collecting, and the first is reviews.

Reviews are the most powerful form of social proof because they live on third party platforms that you don’t control. So places like Google. They’re public, they’re credible, and that makes them so much harder to fake. And that’s also why if you have to prioritise, I’d always prioritise reviews over collecting testimonials. A simple and very effective tactic is to ask a client to leave you a Google review and then reuse that review in your own marketing. So you get it on the third party platform, but you use it in your own website. So you could screenshot it and include it in proposals or as I say, your site or social posts or even better than screenshotting it. Get your website designer or any designer to recreate the review so that it looks consistent across different screen sizes while keeping the exact wording that you’d see on Google Reviews.

And there are, just out of interest, three great moments when you should ask for a review. During the first 90 days of working together, when everything still feels fresh and positive, just after you’ve completed a big project successfully or right after you’ve saved them from something serious. The only real rule for this is don’t ask for reviews if you’re in the middle of any kind of difficult conversation with your client, which sounds obvious, but you’d be surprised how many people forget or they don’t realise that there’s a bit of conflict going off at the same time, we’ve sent them an email asking for a Google review. So that’s reviews.

The second type of social proof is testimonials. And testimonials are like a review except you have control over them. That’s what makes them different. So they come directly to you. And that might be as a quote or a video clip or an email that you’ve asked permission to reuse. And because you control them, they’re easy to polish and deploy across all of your marketing. And yes, they do work, but they don’t carry the same weight as a public review because everyone knows that you could have edited them. That said, one strong video testimonial, especially from a well-known local business or a business that’s well known in your vertical, that can be absolute gold.

And then the third and final type of social proof is case studies. So if reviews are the match, case studies are the bonfire. A simple case study is simply a story that wraps social proof into a narrative and our brains love stories because they feel more real, they’re more believable and more memorable. The structure that makes case studies work is simple. First, you demonstrate relevance by showing that this client looks just like your ideal prospect. Then you describe the problem from the client’s point of view and not a technical one at all. Then you poke the pain a little by explaining what that problem costs them or how it felt. You introduce the solution by explaining what you did. Again, don’t drown it in tech. And then finally, you show the happy ending by demonstrating how the client was able to move forward successfully because of your help. And you can see why video works brilliantly here. Even a quick Teams recording can be enough, although it would be better to hire a proper videographer to film your client in real life. 20 to 30 minutes of footage gives you tons of videos that you can use across multiple platforms.

And once you’ve got that, you can repurpose it into written content, LinkedIn clips, and website copy. One good case study can fuel your marketing for years, because of course, most ordinary business owners and managers are only looking for an MSP once every five years or so. So they’re simply not seeing your case study more than once. And if you were to collect a new case study every couple of months, you can see why I say this should be a habit because you genuinely cannot have too much social proof.

So here’s a simple challenge for you this week. Go and get one new piece of social proof, just one. Ask one client for a review or record a 60-second testimonial over Teams, or even write up your first proper case study using that structure. You’ve already done the hard work of delighting your clients. Now, let those clients help you prove it and attract even more of the right ones.

Why every MSP needs a dispatcher

At some point, every MSP reaches a stage where the biggest challenge is no longer technology. It’s actually customer experience. Tickets are getting logged, work’s getting done, but clients and the users working for the clients, they don’t always feel heard or acknowledged, or there’s a risk that they don’t feel looked after.

And that’s usually the moment that an MSP realises they don’t just have a service desk problem. They actually have a customer service gap. And that’s why I believe every MSP needs to hire a dispatcher. And yes, a dispatcher brings operational benefits and we’ll talk about those in a second but the real magic of this role, I believe, is what it does for the client experience.

A dispatcher’s primary job is not fixing issues. It’s making sure that every single person who reaches out feels seen, heard, and acknowledged.

They want to feel that someone’s taken responsibility that they’re not just shouting into the void. Imagine that you’re one of your clients or one

of the people that work for your clients, and you submit a ticket and it’s a kind of annoying problem. It’s not a major problem, but it’s something you’d really hope to get fixed in a few hours or so because it’s just annoying you. And in most MSPs, you submit that request and you might get an auto response, but then you might not hear anything for a few hours, or you might get a bit of a message back, but it’s just like a random update. It doesn’t really tell you anything.

Whereas when you’ve got a dispatcher in that exact same scenario, every single ticket that gets submitted, the dispatcher phones that person. They literally pick up the phone and they call them and they acknowledge the problem, they perhaps ask a couple of follow-up questions if necessary, and they empathise with the user. They’ll say to them, they could use these exact words, “This is a really annoying problem, isn’t it? So what I’m going to do, I’m going to get one of our senior technicians onto this straightaway and I hope to have an update for you in the next hour or so.” And what the dispatcher has actually just done is they’ve bought your technicians some time to really look into that problem while also keeping the customer happy. This is great, right?

From a customer’s point of view, that matters far more than whether or not the ticket is resolved in five minutes or 55 minutes. When users know that there’s a calm, organised, pleasant human being at the other end who understands what’s going on, their anxiety just drops immediately. And you know, reassurance is a massive part of good IT support, isn’t it? You must have learned that so many times over your career. So let’s take a moment to just make sure that you and I understand exactly what I mean by a dispatcher.

A dispatcher is the person who sits between the clients and the technicians, and their job is to make sure that every user feels heard and nothing ever gets lost, while ensuring that the technicians always know exactly what to work on next. So from an internal point of view, a dispatcher typically works alongside the service desk manager, and they’re not replacing that role at all. They’re very much supporting it. They help to route tickets efficiently, making sure the right work goes to the right technician and that priorities are set properly instead of emotionally.

Now that alone massively improves flow and maximises technician time, because instead of technicians constantly checking queues and answering phones and responding to interruptions or trying to decide what do I work on next, what’s the priority. They can just focus on actually resolving things. And here’s the important commercial point. A dispatcher usually costs significantly less than a technician. So by hiring a dispatcher, often you’ll free up enough technician capacity that you can delay or maybe even completely avoid having to hire another tech, which is another big win. But again, the real benefit shows up in how your clients feel. Every user gets acknowledged quickly and they know what’s happening next. They’re kept informed if there’s an unexpected delay and they’re never left wondering whether anyone has even seen their tech support request. Over time, that builds trust and patience and dramatically reduces their frustration even when things go wrong.

One of the biggest mistakes MSPs make is assuming that the dispatcher has to be technical. They do not. In fact, some of the best dispatchers come from outside IT altogether. Just think about people who already thrive in fast-paced customer facing environments, perhaps someone who’s run a local coffee shop or a hotel receptionist or someone who’s fronting a car service department. These are people who are really good at juggling priorities and managing expectations and staying calm under pressure. Oh, and communicating clearly and smiling while they do it. They know how to deal with people when they’re stressed, impatient, or frustrated. Well, that’s IT support, right? You can teach basic IT and systems people. You can teach processes, but it’s almost impossible to teach someone empathy, organisation, and great communication skills. I know these things can be developed, but it’s easier to bring someone in who’s got all of those things and teach them a bit of IT.

And a great dispatcher brings all of those things to your MSP. Empathy, organisation, great communication skills. Wouldn’t it be cool to have someone who is the friendly, consistent face of your service desk, someone that clients recognise and trust… everything gets easier. Technicians are protected, workflows better, and the clients feel better looked after. And do you know what? As a side effect of this, your MSP starts to feel more professional, more controlled, and more scalable, both to you, your technicians, and your clients. I genuinely believe that a dispatcher is not just overhead, they’re leverage. When you get this role right and you get the person right that’s in that role, the improvement in customer service alone more than justifies the decision.

How to get vendors to pay for your marketing

Featured guest: Laura Johns has spent the last 20 years promoting some of the most impactful technology solutions across the globe. Today, she lead The Business Growers, a fast-growing marketing firm focused on building predictable revenue engines for MSPs, IT service providers, and telecommunications companies.

The Business Growers provide full-service, done-for-you marketing support to clients in more than 20 states, bringing deep industry expertise and a clear focus on results. They help MSPs and IT leaders increase monthly recurring revenue, improve retention, and win more long-term managed contracts.

Could you imagine getting vendors to pay for your MSP’s marketing? Well, you don’t need to imagine it. It’s real, and it happens every day to MSPs across the world. There’s hundreds of millions of dollars available in something called MDF, marketing development funds, and yet very few MSPs are using it to subsidise their marketing.

My special guest today runs a fast growing MSP marketing agency, and she knows the good, the bad, and the ugly about MDF. So if you want to subsidise your marketing, here right now, are the answers.

Hi I’m Laura Johns, founder and CEO of The Business Growers, a marketing operations and lead generation company that serves managed services providers.

It’s so cool to have you on the podcast finally, Laura. You and I met in real life for the first time at ScaleCon in New Orleans last year, which you’ve just told me that you only live a couple of hours away from. And we were on the naughty table with Nate Freedman and Cassie from TechProMarket. Marketing was there as well. And I remember Nate kept whooping and hollering and throwing comments out. It was such fun, such fun. I hope it happens again this year.

So it was lovely to meet you and what I want to get you on the show talking about today is I know is one of your specialist subjects, which is MDF, marketing development funds. And it’s something we haven’t actually mentioned in the podcast for a number of years, which is crazy because I know that there are tens, if not hundreds of millions of dollars sat in vendor’s bank accounts, which should actually be in MSP’s bank accounts.

So before we talk about that, do you want to just tell us a little bit about you? So what’s your kind of journey within the MSP world and how did you get to where you are now?

Sure, yes. I think that I can officially say I’m the only tech focused marketing agency in the state of Mississippi. Although we do have a lot of budding tech companies that have come up in the last decade or so, we are not necessarily known for our technology, so I’m really proud of that. I’m from the deep south, I’ve always been in technology, started my career working for a telecommunications company that was embedding cellular technology inside of an electric metre. So monitoring electricity through cellular, which was really progressive. That was my first job out of college, did graduate school, continued to work there for 10 years, which this day and age I hear is unheard of when you start a new career to stay somewhere for 10 years, but I loved it. And it was that startup and that culture of startup was really, really a cool experience for me.

And then that company actually sold for a $100 million in 2014. And once they sold, I went to work for the parent company that was a metre manufacturing company in Washington. Then after that, went to work for a managed services provider, so stayed kind of in the industry and led marketing for them. And really this MDF was a big part of my story even then. So at the time, the company I worked for was an AT&T reseller. They were reselling connectivity and other things through AT&T. And they were starting a program for partners that allowed them to get upwards of 10 to $15,000 a quarter based off of how much they were selling. And we were a very small, at the time, lean managed services provider business. And so that was my marketing budget, essentially. I was having to figure out how to maximise those dollars so that I could accomplish my own goals in the business.

So from there though, I went on to start my own marketing agency where after I saw a lot of problems that I was experiencing leading marketing there, tried to find a need for, which was coming around the whole managed services provider business with kind of a turnkey marketing offer so that they could focus on operating the business and then let somebody else handle these long sales cycles and staying on top of opportunities and things like that. So it’s been kind of a journey, but all in telecom and all from the state of Mississippi, which has been kind of fun.

That’s amazing. That’s such a great story. So let’s assume everyone who’s listening to this or watching this on YouTube, let’s assume no prior knowledge. So just give us the 101 on MDF. So what exactly is it, and what isn’t it? I think that’s probably a good place to start.

Yeah, so marketing development funds, it looks different with different vendors. I think that that’s the first thing to know is that it’s not cut and dry. It’s going to depend on their own systems. I do think that some are much better than others. I feel like sometimes it can be a catchphrase that brings people in to the vendor, but also gets really complicated in how to use it. I think the statistic, now, I don’t know, so nobody go look this up, but I believe that it’s less than 10% utilisation for this industry typically of the MDF that’s available. I will get that statistic though if it’s true or not.

Should we make it real? Let’s just declare it now as a real stat.

We know for a fact based on all of our clients that are using it, that they come to us and they say, “I know I have MDF with X, Y, and Z vendor, and I’ve never used it.” So then we start digging in and we realise, I think the reason that it’s really underutilised is because it’s complicated and it’s different for every vendor.

MDF is based on what you’re selling in volume for that vendor, and you achieve milestones that allow you to have cash in the bank for promoting their services.

That’s kind of a big part of it too, is if you’re selling a lot of different things, you have to be really careful in your messaging and your marketing and not making sure that you are service forward, here’s this phone or this particular vendor that you’re using, because then that can complicate the message a little bit. So I think that a lot of businesses, depending on their size, don’t really want to lead with that brand, they want to lead with their brand. And that’s where I think, again, it gets tricky, but getting compensation on a regular basis for selling more of that product and the really good programs are doing it well, and it can be very motivating if you have somebody who manages it, which is kind of become our specialty in supporting our clients and doing that.

Got it. So you seek MDF funding and then manage the relationship with the vendors on behalf of the MSPs. That’s one of the things you do, right?

Yes, that’s right. Usually when they come in, we’re not going to go through the effort to find new MDF. One of the first things we do in onboarding is get a really good understanding of their services and their vendors. And then at that point, we have a good idea of what’s worth going after and what’s not. And then I would say probably two out of ten times they’re already using it to some capacity, but may not be maximising it. But yes, we will look at their kind of vendor list. We will start making contacts as their agency, if they will allow us, if not, sometimes in some cases, which is understandable, the company has to be the one doing the outreach and making the connection. But for the most part, they’re really good at kind of handing the reins over to us as their agency and we’re connecting with those marketing teams that are providing the communication and the guidelines around the MDF. And then our account managers are all trained on how to use it in strategy. It is strategic, you have to be very strategic because if you’ve got four vendors that all give you MDF, you have to be making sure that you’re qualifying for getting the money back in your bank account, right?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So you said earlier that vendors that run a good MDF program, which obviously implies there are vendors that run a bad MDF program. So I’m going to ask you just to make my life easy, don’t mention the ones that do a bad program but you can name names if they do a good program. So again, from the point of view of the MSP, what does a good program look like and what does a bad program look like?

Yeah. I think just like a sales compensation, especially in this industry, it has to be simple. And if you confuse the person that’s doing your sales, then you’re not motivating them. And so I think that the good programs understand that if it’s complicated and if it requires four steps and three days and multiple submissions and requirement of certain assets back and forth, that becomes complicated. Also, the bad programs are the ones that give a very, very small amount on the dollar. And I believe the ones that work best, and I am going to say one in particular, and if you look me up, you know that I’m a AT&T ecosystem partner, so our company is an approved marketing partner, which means 100% of the MDF that they give to their resellers is reimbursable with me because I’m an approved partner, but their program works well because they have two buckets.

Essentially, if you sell up to this much, you get $10,000 every quarter. If you sell up to this threshold, you get $15,000 a quarter. It’s not pennies for a dollar, it’s not confusing. And if you sell these two thresholds, the next quarter, you get the money. And so we have been able to build marketing activity around these budgets and then also give the feedback back to the vendor, “Hey, here’s what happened with your dollars this year.” Which that’s what creates really good relationships that I think the vendors appreciate, to be quite honest.

Yeah. And that’s such a simple scheme, isn’t it? If you sell more, we’ll give you more, and that’s it. And I can see the simplicity of that. I can also understand how big corporations would overcomplicate things.  Let’s say it, Microsoft, right? And I’m not going to ask you a direct experience, but let’s be honest. And I’m not the greatest fan of Microsoft products, but even for me, obviously I have 365. Even for me as a 365 end user, just getting my invoice every month is so complicated, you have to log into a thing, you have to click at this, it seems to generate the invoice and take 60 seconds to do it. And it’s like, oh my goodness. I know MSPs struggle with it.

And I think to speak to that too, you said it, I didn’t, but that is one of the ones that is just too much trouble. But what I have seen in these programs or these vendors that work really well is even if they’re mega, AT&T obviously they’re a very big organisation, and a lot of people associate in their minds with AT&T complicated, however, they have a dedicated team just to partner resellers and they have kind of two different divisions – one’s a commission-based, one’s a top line revenue based – but they have these segments that serve a very particular customer with very particular outcomes and goals, and they understand what works for that customer. And I think if you try to take a big company, just for example, like Microsoft, and you try to blanket a reseller program where we know that every MSP is different and has different techniques and different systems in the way they sell, then I think that if you’re not willing to take the time and invest the resources in finding what they need the most and having a support team around that, then you’re not going to really be able to understand their needs and be the voice and be able to provide a program that makes it worth their time.

Yeah. No, that makes perfect sense. So I’ve got two final questions for you. The second question I’m going to ask and second is, as an MSP, how would you get started with this? Before I ask that question, we talked earlier about how these vendors come up with MDF funds, they put the money aside ultimately to sell product. And we all understand that and no one’s got an issue with that, but where that is an issue, as you correctly identified earlier, is where they want you to push a particular kind of router, say, and you and I as marketers know that the end business owner or manager that we’re trying to sell to doesn’t care about the brand of the router, but if we say to the vendor, “Hey, we’re going to spend your advertising dollar or your marketing dollars, and we’re going to do a really cool campaign, which is going to bring on some new clients, and then we’re going to standardize, we’re going to put your routers in all of their offices, but we’re not going to mention your name.” And there’s going to be one vice president of sales that rubs their hands and goes, “Great.” And then there’ll be a vice president of marketing who says, “But that doesn’t meet my quarterly quota for brand mentions on Reddit” or whatever. So is that a case of just working with vendors that get it and just finding that, I guess, 10, 20% or is there another way of doing that?

I think so. I think again, and I should have mentioned this earlier, but those successful programs are the ones that understand, “Hey, my logo doesn’t have to be bigger than your logo. I can be a very small part of your overall plan.” And if we’re doing marketing well as a managed services provider business, we are talking all about outcomes and we’re talking all about our customer’s pain points and their frustrations. And you’re right, they don’t care about the product. I feel like just in general for another podcast perhaps we talk about the fact that nobody cares about what you’re selling they just want you to solve their problems, that’s another topic, I’m sure you talked about that plenty. But I think that again, these programs that get it, they also understand that you have a bigger objective that you’re trying to meet. And so for example, going back to that AT&T, if you put their partner badge on there, which is small and they want it a third of the size of yours or they don’t want it, they want you to be at the top, they want them to be at the bottom, those types of things.

Some MDF programs are fine with even just, like for example, you’re doing an email campaign that powered by this particular vendor or we’re offering a two for one, if you buy connectivity, you get 10 phones free or whatever, but being able to bundle products that are not both the vendor’s product and be open to the fact that, “Hey, if they can sell on outcomes and my product gets sold, maybe it’s a small mention, but also if I’m their vendor of choice, hopefully I trust the MSP enough to know that they’re going to sell more.” And again, kind of going back to that, how can this MDF serve them best so that they’re going to be more motivated to sell my product? If you do it well, like a salesperson incentivise them well, then the nuanced things, I get we need to put a logo on there, but let’s not require it to be the whole message because if we’re going to be wasting time on sending emails about routers, then it’s worthless in my opinion anyway.

That makes perfect sense. Final question then, which is where do you get started? So obviously, an agency like yours will do this as part of your client management, but not every MSP can work with you. So is it as simple as you talk to all of your account managers, you just ask the question?

I would suggest spending a day dedicated or a couple of appointments during the week, you’re going to be talking to your account manager anyway, go ahead and let them know that on our next call or let’s schedule a call if you don’t have a regular routine depending on how substantial of a part of your business that product or vendor is, let them know you want to talk if they have MDF funds. Again, I would say you’re going to find that a lot of them do.

A good way to practice, in my opinion, and of course I’m always working smarter, not harder, is if they’ve got a good program they can send you the guidelines and the breakdown of what you get for what, and go ahead and put that into your AI tool of choice and compare those programs yourself, do some prompts about what might bring you the most value at this stage of your business with this many employees and this much revenue.

Start to do some of that research and data yourself, save yourself some time and look at what they’re actually offering to see, is this a pennies on the dollar or is this a lump sum based on my sales growth and what’s going to work best for my business? And then figure those out. A lot of times, again, if it’s not worth your time, it’s not a good program, it’s not worth your time, but there are some that are going to be good and substantial. And if you’re not taking advantage of it, you’re missing opportunities to influx some cash because you think you don’t have a marketing budget, but you might. You might actually have a marketing budget, you just don’t know.

I love that. Thank you, Laura. Tell us finally just a little bit about your business, what you do with MSPs, and what’s the best way to get in touch with you?

You can always find me on LinkedIn, I’m very active sharing lots of opinions, some you may like, some you may not. And then also, you can look us up at thebusinessgrowers.com. We are marketing operations, doing foundational marketing, getting you digitally visible to your target customers and ideal customers. And then secondarily, we’re doing lead generation for you as well once that good foundation is built. And I teach about it all the time. We’ve got YouTube, of course. If you go to The Business Growers on YouTube, you’ll find us as well and you can learn lots of things there.

Useful Links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Laura Johns, on LinkedIn. And visit The Business Growers website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

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Based on our survey results, other MSPs have these marketing problems. Have a look at the results to see how typical your MSP is

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Last week I launched an anonymous survey to the thousands of MSPs who follow me on LinkedIn, Facebook, and are on my email marketing list.

I've done this a few times over the last few years. My goal each time is to understand the marketing pains MSPs are feeling right now.

Here's what I discovered...

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Discovery 1: Even those MSPs who are doing marketing struggle to generate leads

While a shocking quarter of MSPs who took the survey don't do any regular marketing, those who do are still struggling to turn that marketing activity into leads. Looks like turning leads into clients isn't such an issue for these MSPs.

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Discovery 2: MSPs really will work with any kind of business

Although lawyers, financial services, and manufacturers are some of the favourites. I'm surprised to see how few want to work with veterinarians.

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Discovery 3: MSPs are clearer on who they want to work with, than why those clients would choose them

There are two tools that you must have in place before you start marketing your MSP:

1. An Ideal Client Profile, so you know exactly who you want to do business with
2. A Unique Selling Proposition, so you know exactly why those ideal clients would choose you

It doesn't surprise me that a lot of MSPs really don't have these tools in place, nor that the bigger of those two problems is positioning.

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Discovery 4: MSPs have a lot of work to do to have a solid 3 step lead generation system in place

I asked about the 3 step lead generation system that I've taught to thousands of MSPs across the world.

Which is:

1. Build audiences
2. Grow relationships
3. Convert relationships

In those six words, there's your entire marketing strategy. It's very powerful, but, of course, there is a lot of work to build that into a marketing system, and many MSPs struggle with various elements of it.

Either which audiences to build, or what content to put in front of them to grow relationships, or what sales activity to do to convert those relationships into leads.

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I have so much more advice to give you on this, especially the positioning problem. Join me at this brand new one-time live event

On Tuesday 10th of February 2026, I'll be running a live virtual event talking about positioning.

Join me and discover for yourself why technically superior MSPs lose deals to average competitors.

It's very much worth 30 minutes of your time. All the details are here.

Also... have you heard about my new Standout MSP System? It's a focused, practical system that helps MSPs stop blending in and start being chosen for the right reasons. This is not a generic marketing course. It’s a short, structured system that helps you:

• Understand what buyers actually care about
• Identify what truly differentiates your MSP
• Turn that into a clear USP
• Apply it across your website, LinkedIn and sales process

You’ll work through this step by step, in just a few hours, supported by practical tools that make it easy. At this live event, I'll take just a couple of minutes to tell you about this.

The post Other MSPs have these marketing pains. Do you? appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

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Welcome to Episode 323 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

How to market your MSP to lawyers

If you want more lawyers as clients for your MSP, here’s everything you need to know. Let’s talk about what lawyers look for in a new MSP, why they would switch, and what kind of marketing is going to grab their attention and convince them to talk to you.

So law firms are a vertical that can be incredibly profitable for MSPs. And I know that sometimes lawyers can be difficult people to deal with, but if you’re confident in your service and you know that you want more professional firms that put technology at the heart of everything they do, let’s get more lawyers. In fact, I believe they’re one of the easiest verticals to market to when you know what they care about. And spoiler alert, it’s not Windows 11 and Copilot.

Law firms buy IT differently from most other businesses. And the reason for this is simple. Everything they do revolves around risk.

Their risk, their client’s risk, the risk of regulators breathing down their necks, and the risk of missing a deadline because Outlook decided today was a fun day not to work properly. So if you want to win lawyers, you don’t sell IT support, you sell risk reduction and professional reputation protection.

Let’s talk about their biggest pain points. So first is compliance and confidentiality. Lawyers live in a world where one email sent to the wrong person can cause a catastrophe. So talk to them about secure communication systems, email encryption, MFA everywhere, data loss prevention, and of course audit trails. Second, billable time. Every minute a lawyer can’t work is literally money disappearing. So your message here is simple. We keep your fee earners earning. And then third, case management and workflow tools. Many firms still use clunky old systems or they haven’t fully adopted cloud tools yet. So show them how better tech can make caseloads smoother, faster, and more profitable.

If you want your MSP to stand out, you need to stop sounding like an IT company and start sounding like someone who understands legal practices. Use their terminology – fee earners, case files, discovery, retainers, compliance obligations, client confidentiality – all words like that. Because when they hear their own world reflected back at them by a potential IT partner, they immediately think, “Ah, yeah, this one understands us.”

You do need some specialised proof. Law firms don’t buy from generalists, they buy from specialists. So create a case study with a local legal firm, a landing page dedicated to IT for law firms with a short guide called something like, The seven biggest cyber risks facing law firms in 2026. And then just get a few testimonial quotes from partners or office managers. You don’t need dozens, one or two strong quotes will carry huge weight.

And here’s a little marketing trick. Law firms love audit. I mean audits is basically their favourite word. So offer them something like a free 20-minute legal IT risk assessment saying something like, Is your firm compliant with your regulators cyber guidance? Find out. And this positions you as a safety first expert rather than just another IT fixer.

Another smart tactic is to pick a sub niche. So don’t just market to all law firms, pick a slice. It could be family law or conveyancers or criminal defence or corporate commercial, maybe personal injury. Each of them has slightly different pressures and workflows, and the more specific you’re messaging, the more magnetic it becomes.

Finally, turn up to where lawyers are already gathering because you want to be in their world. So local law societies, legal breakfasts, CPD events, partner level networking groups, maybe conveyancing or legal tech conferences, lawyer of the year, dinner sponsorships. I mean, you could even do print newsletters for legal practices. We give a great printed newsletter every month to the members of our MSP Marketing Edge, and this is a great usage example for that. Basically, if you show up where they are, you instantly stand out because most MSPs never, ever bother to do this and certainly not within a specific vertical.

Lawyers are one of the most stable, recession-proof, time-sensitive verticals out there. And when you get one lawyer, you’ll get two, three, or four referrals because the legal community is very tightly knit. So remember, talk about risk, talk about reputation, talk about billable hours and position yourself as the specialist who understands the legal world better than any other MSP they’ve ever met. Do this and you won’t just get one law firm, you’ll become the IT provider for legal practices across your area.

MSPs: Why are you working so hard?

MSPs, why are you working so hard? That’s a serious question because I know that you work so many hours and you barely take any vacations or holidays. And I know that you’re not scared of hard work to build your business. But have you remembered why you’re doing this, why you started the business in the first place? That’s the question I want to ask you right now. What’s your why?

But first, let’s return to why are you still working so hard? Why are you working 60 hour weeks to run and grow your MSP? Because you’re not just doing it for fun, right? I know that after about 50 hours of work in a week, it really does stop being fun. And I know that you’re not doing this to make yourself rich because there are very few MSPs motivated by having a yacht. Yeah, it would be nice, but none of us really are motivated by that.

What is it that actually drives you? Why do you do this, week after week? Do you know or are you caught in the trap of working hard just because you’ve always worked hard?

Let me share a little bit of my backstory to see if it’s anything like yours. So I started my first business 21 years ago after finishing a 13 year career as a journalist and a radio presenter. And at first, I didn’t mind the 80 hour weeks to get the business going and I really was working 80 hours a week on average. But as I added staff and as I fought for every little bit of revenue, I began to resent working so hard all the time for so little personal income. Does this sound familiar?

Everything changed with the birth of Samm, my only child. She’s now 15, she’s going to be 16 later this year. But back in 2010 when she was born, I quickly realised that I was trapped in my business and I couldn’t keep working at that pace while also being a present partner and present parent. So I made a decision. I was going to get good at marketing to get the business to give me the lifestyle I wanted. And of course, it didn’t happen overnight. I just found 90 minutes every day to start learning and experimenting.

My goal was an easy system to generate leads, qualify them as prospects, and get them into a sales meeting. My marketing got better and better, and I reinvented the business, turning it from being a struggling PR firm into a successful healthcare marketing agency. And actually I built that up and eventually sold it in 2016, which is when I entered the channel and started working with MSPs.

So back to today. Today I have a great work-life balance, but that’s by design. I work around 30 hours a week, which keeps me challenged, involved in my business, and able to drive growth. But I also spend plenty of time with Samm and with my partner. So my why is to spend plenty of quality time with the people that I love doing the things that we all enjoy doing. And that’s why I work every day. And of course I do it for fun and for the challenge as well. But the real driving factor for me is to give me a specific lifestyle.

I want to make sure that Samm can do all the things that she wants to do as she gets closer to being an adult and entering professional training. I have the time and cash now to do some serious travelling when that happens, when she’s a bit more independent, but I can also continue to be a present partner and a present parent every single day. I mean, that’s really important to me. It’s a core value right inside me. So let me ask you again. Having reflected on all of that, what’s your why?

This is how MSPs lose revenue

The Marketing Minute

Hey, this is Brian Gillette from the FeelGood MSP, and here is my marketing idea. You should go and pull the transcripts or call recordings of your last 10 sales presentations. If you’re using an AI tool this should be very simple. What you’re going to do is you’re going to use the AI tool or your transcript to find every objection that your prospects listed, whatever reasons that they might not want to hire an MSP or concerns about hiring an MSP, whether or not you won that deal.

Make a bulleted list of them and then you’re going to start writing a weekly blog post where the title of the blog post includes that objection, but reversing it. For example, if the objection was, “Well, we’re worried about losing control by outsourcing IT instead of having it in- house.” You might have a blog post that says, “Why having an outsourced IT company will give you way more control than an employee.”

Just go through that list. You can use AI to help you support it, or you can even use those talk tracks from the transcripts of how you handle it in the sales call, and that’s going to make your marketing much more visceral, much more relevant to your audience.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Kim Simmonds, on LinkedIn, and visit the Cloud Contracts 365 website.
• Connect with my Marketing Minute contributor, Brian Gillette, on LinkedIn.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

The post How to market your MSP to lawyers appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 319 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

Build audiences

Hello and welcome to a special episode of the podcast. We are kicking off a three part series this week. Earlier this year, I released my latest book, it’s called MSP marketing: Start Here, and it’s all about a 3 step lead generation system trusted by hundreds and hundreds of MSPs around the world. It’s super simple and yet incredibly powerful, and that’s by design. So starting this week, we’re doing a deep dive into it. Let me tell you what the 3 step system is, and then this week we’re going to look at the first step.

I see my job as making marketing super simple for you, which is why I’ve pulled together an entire marketing strategy, a whole 3 step system into just six words. Let me tell you what they are – Build audiences. Grow relationships. Convert relationships. Super simple. But as you’re about to hear today and over the next couple of weeks, there’s a lot of detail within these three steps.

This week’s special, we’re just going to focus on how you can build audiences. So let me start with the question. If I asked you right now to name 10 local business owners who would love to hear from you about their IT, could you do that? Most MSPs can’t, and that’s not a criticism, it’s just the reality of how most MSPs build their businesses. They focus on doing great work for the clients they’ve already got, which is great. They rely on word of mouth, referrals, and maybe the occasional inbound lead.

Here’s the truth, if you don’t have an audience to market to, then you don’t really have a marketing engine. You’ve got luck but you haven’t got control.

Building audiences is the foundation of everything else you’ll do in marketing your MSP. And yet, it’s the bit that most MSPs skip because it feels slow, it’s not sexy. You can’t post a selfie about it on LinkedIn and get a dopamine rush of likes. But when you’ve got an audience, a real audience of people who are listening to you, trust me, everything changes. Let me tell you where this hit me the hardest.

Back in my first business, a marketing agency that I built up between 2005 and then sold in 2016. Back in the early days, I was desperate for predictable leads and I tried everything… one-off campaigns, buying data lists, I was spending too much on ads and some things worked a little bit, but most of these things didn’t work. And then one day I realised something painfully simple. I didn’t have an audience. I had a client base, and I had some people on my email list, but I didn’t have a community of people who wanted to hear from me.

And that’s when I stopped chasing leads and started building lists. Lists of people who liked what I had to say. People who might not buy today, but who might remember me when they were ready to buy. And that’s when things really started to change in that previous business. So what does building audiences look like for you as an MSP? It’s not complicated. It’s small, deliberate habits that compound.

You start by finding the right people on LinkedIn. What if you were to attempt 10 new connections every weekday? And here’s the thing, it’s not about the numbers that you build up. It’s about doing this intentionally, because you’re not connecting to just everyone, you’re connecting to the right kind of people, the people you’d like to do business with – the decision makers, the people who run businesses that match your ideal client profile. Because when your connections are right, your content really starts to land in front of the right people. And then you engage with them, you comment thoughtfully on their posts, not just nice post or, yeah I totally agree, but something real, something that adds value to their posts.

So essentially you’re human. You show a bit of your personality, and gradually the algorithm does something magical. It starts to show you in their feeds. In fact, what’s happening here is a bit of a mix of outbound and inbound marketing. By making connection requests to people, which is outbound, and then by commenting on other people’s posts, which is inbound, some of those people will connection request you. And this is really good for telling LinkedIn that you are a popular and in demand person. Outbound, inbound, that’s the start of awareness on LinkedIn.

Now, here’s the clever bit, because you take that LinkedIn list, which is just one audience, and you use it to start building your own email database. Because one of the downsides of LinkedIn is that it’s a borrowed audience. At any point, the algorithm could change or you could even be banned from LinkedIn and lose that audience altogether. So to balance that out, you also build alongside it something called an owned audience. And this is where the data is yours. And the ideal owned audience for an MSP is your email list. You add the connections that you’re making on LinkedIn to your CRM. You find their email address, maybe even their business address so that you can reach them outside social media.

And of course, you can spend money on this and do it quickly by using plugins such as Lusher, Apollo or Hunter.io. And these are plugins which sit in your Chrome and will show people’s email addresses. Or you can just Google, you essentially do a brute force search. You Google to find their email address. Whichever way you use, now you’ve got multiple touchpoints. You have the ability to reach people via the borrowed audience of LinkedIn, which is where they are, and also via your own audience of emailing them. And this is how marketing becomes a system, instead of an event. Every day you add a few names to the pot. Every week, you’ve then got a few more people who know who you are. And every month that pot compounds.

Before you know it, you’ve got hundreds, maybe eventually thousands of people who know your name, they see your face now and again. And some of them will start to think of you as the local IT expert. So you’re not chasing them anymore, you are present in their world within LinkedIn and on their email. And that is the power of building audiences. You are not begging for attention. You are quietly, patiently earning it. Because every future sale starts here, with someone who’s aware you exist and who’s been quietly learning to trust you long before they need you. So when their current MSP messes up, when they wake up one morning thinking, do you know what, we need someone new, you are already in their mind. And that’s how you win before the selling even starts.

So if you do one thing differently in 2026, build audiences. 10 new LinkedIn connections a day, a couple of minutes commenting every day. Make it a habit, not a project. Because your audience is your future pipeline, and the MSP who builds one now will own their market in a few years time. If you want to go into a bit more detail on this, it’s all laid out in my book, MSP marketing: Start Here. You can get it on Amazon as a paperback and a Kindle, and it’s also on Audible.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Recommended book: MSP marketing: Start Here by Paul Green.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

The post MSP marketing SPECIAL: Build audiences appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to this SPECIAL Episode 318 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green, powered by the MSP Marketing Edge.

5 expert predictions for MSPs in 2026

Hello and welcome to the first of four special episodes to take us through Christmas and into 2026. And that’s actually where we’re starting, with predictions for next year.

You’re going to hear predictions about the demand for cyber security, how content marketing might die as a marketing channel, a really cool idea about creating free apps as lead magnets, why you should help your clients reign in the usage of SaaS tools, why you should invest into your leadership and how to beat much bigger MSPs in your marketplace. And as you’d expect, there’s a lot of talk about AI.

Hi there, it’s Jamie Warner, CEO of MSP eNerds and SAS vender, Invarosoft. So what are my predictions for 2026 in the MSP industry? Well, I’ve got a few to tell you. First one is SMB, small to medium businesses, are always going to need an IT partner. I think people have been saying for many years, our relevance won’t be there in the future. As long as you have non-technical people that don’t understand technology, we’ll always have a huge amount of business to chase and a huge amount of opportunity there for outsourced IT services and to be an IT partner for them.

I think the number one trend though will always continue to be cyber security. I’m definitely noticing in my world, in the eNerds world, that new clients are always very cautious and worried about their security posture. So certainly focusing on that and ensuring that you’re following one of the best practice frameworks so that you can articulate how your service delivery will meet those cyber security requirements is going to be important.

Another one, artificial intelligence, obviously it’s a huge buzzword. How do MSPs get engaged? There’s a lot of people out there trying to tell you how you can just do certain things around AI. I think firstly, let’s get the platform right as MSPs, and then of course it’s going to be the Microsoft platform with Copilot. So making sure that you are crystal clear on how Copilot works. One of the things we are doing is running webinars with the big vendors and distributors with their experts around this space. Or you could become your own expert if you like, and making sure that you are being proactive with your advice around how to actually use AI in the Microsoft Suite. It tends to be 90+% of businesses are on the Microsoft platform unless you’re purely a Google shop or the like, but ultimately that’s a really good place to start and make sure that you are best in class around.

The last one that I would say, and it’s that my biggest bug bear if anyone see me talk, is just how we articulate our services when you get a new business lead.

One thing that will not change in 2026 is that when clients are looking for a new IT partner, they’re essentially looking for a step up in service delivery and in the experience they get.

So when you get a new lead, your only job is to convince them that your service delivery methodology is going to be a step up. And so your job is to argue the case of how you are going to deliver a service that will be best in class. So what are you going to talk about?

The big things is actually explaining and visually explaining, for example, your customer experience technology, how visibly you’re going to provide them with a one pane of glass. It could be your technology business reviews actually showing them how you’re going to do a gap analysis, a traffic light report, how you’re going to do your Essential Eight report or whatever the cyber security framework you are using and actually showing them how this looks. What does onboarding look like? How does account management look like? All of these different things are arguments and things that you need to put into your sales process to demonstrate that you are going to be a step up.

I don’t think that’s going to change in 2026 and as an example, my company eNerds, we only target small to medium businesses just like you. It’s the same and last year we grew by a million dollars in revenue and this year we’ll grow by another million dollars in revenue just by signing up a lot of clients and being really efficient at doing our advisory with those clients. Making sure we’re having those relevant conversations and actually squeezing the lemon of getting that deal flow that’s out there that relates to advisory.

These are things they need, not things they don’t need, and just being really efficient around that process. And you’ll find yourself growing by a quarter of a million, half a million, a million each year if you get your new business arguments right, and you sign up more clients and then of course you go and have a chat to them around advisory. So I think those things are going to stay the same in 2026. I wish you continued success and hopefully we all have a absolute cracker of a year next year. Take care.

Here’s Matt Solomon from Channel Program. So my prediction for 2026 is that MSPs are going to battle a very similar challenge that they’ve had over the years, which is differentiation. The reality is that 92% of an MSP’s core stack is the identical stack to their competitors. And so MSPs who will stop selling tools and tickets and really start focusing on business outcomes, I think are going to be the ones who really set themselves apart by aligning services directly to their customer’s bottom line.

MSPs will really need to rethink what efficiency means to their small business customers. It’s no longer about lowering internal labour costs. It’s about driving measurable savings, productivity, and profitability for your clients.

Another major shift is the work on SAS sprawl. In 2026 MSPs will take a far more active role in helping customers reign in all of that chaos, not just from security and compliance standpoint, but also in managing the license utilisation, the renewals and the vendor contracts. The MSPs who can provide visibility and control access to that massive sprawl that they’re experiencing will earn the trust and get the margins that they need. The average SMB is using over 80 SaaS tools and they’re not managing them properly, and it’s only getting worse with AI tools because everybody’s adding them. I think the MSPs that will thrive will be the ones to connect the dots between costs, compliance and customer outcomes.

2026 isn’t about adding more tools. It’s about making every tool, every process and every relationship work smarter for the customer’s bottom line.

Hey, it’s Ian Luckett from the MSP Growth Hub. Here’s my predictions for 2026 for the MSP landscape and they’re going to be twofold. First things first is all around investing in your people and your leadership. Over the last year, we’ve been working with many high growth MSPs and really highly profitable MSPs. And the ones that are really winning are the ones who are investing in their people. They’re investing in the team that’s going to help you get out of the business and to help you to spend more time strategically rather than getting stuck in the business all of the time. How do we do that? We create our vision, our mission, our values.

We are hearing people that used to poo poo this idea now thinking this is the best thing that’s ever happened. My team are connected, my team are aligned, everybody’s rowing in the same direction.

We are employing people and they’re staying there not leaving after a short period of time. And the reason for that is because they’re in flow with you. They’re aligned with where you want to go with a business. You’ve been a bit of a vulnerable leader, and also we’ve got some amazing future leaders coming up as well. So how do you help your SDMs and your senior account managers and your senior people support you so that you can then lift yourself up? So I’m going to see a big insurgence in people actually spending more time on their leadership and spending more time on their people.

The other one flips. That’s a little bit analog, isn’t it? That’s a little bit old school. The other one is around AI. Now, I know that with AI, you got shiny balls coming in from your left in your right up above an envelope, wherever it might be. But the information that we are hearing right now about AI is yes, it’s moving very, very fast, but you need to be investing in it first. You can’t become an expert if you haven’t experienced some of the growth around AI, how it works, because when you do that, guess what you’re going to do? You’re going to do exactly the same as you did when you learned all those technical skills back in the day with the computers and servers and the WIFI.

Now, we want you to be able to be in a position where you’re investing ahead of the curve on AI in your own business so that you can then go and support your customers in their AI journey. Remember what happened at the pandemic? Whole world shut down in 24 hours, and all of a sudden they’re ringing you up saying, Hey, you need to fix my problems because I need a technical person to help me work from home to help me transfer these large files, to help me do all those other things. This is kind of the same thing, but we haven’t got the emergency situation, but it will be an emergency situation if the large MSPs, and what they’re doing is they’re investing hundreds of thousands of pounds in AI readiness, and if we’re not careful, they’re going to go around and they’re going to swallow up all the little guys who haven’t invested in this.

So it’s really important that you invest in AI properly in your own business. You go out and you talk to your customers about AI and how it can enable their business. Remember, it’s all about that transfer of value. If you are adding value to your customers, they’re going to see you as a valuable partner and a valuable part of their business. But if you are not talking to them about AI, somebody else will be. And then guess what you think’s going to happen to that person? They’re going to be helping them in that next stage like they did in the pandemic, and then they’re going to move themselves over.

So two things for me in 2026. Focus on your people…

Get the right people in the right roles with the right values lined up to your vision, and you’ll be blown away what you will do.

And number two, let’s just get AI ready. Let’s just get ahead of the curve, ahead of the technical curve. Don’t get caught up in the shiny ball syndrome. Fit your own oxygen mask first. Get your ideas in a row and you will have an incredible 2026.

I just want to say thank you to everybody for supporting the MSP Growth Hub in the last year, particularly the podcast, which we’ve got IT Experts Podcast, which is not as good as Paul’s podcast, but you know what, it may be one day. That’s my aspiration. But anyway, great friends like Paul and the Channel, it’s an amazing place to be. We’re grateful for every single one of you. Thanks again and wishing you every success in 2026, and I look forward to catching up and connecting soon. Take care now.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guests on LinkedIn: Jamie Warner, Matt Soloman, Brian Gillette, Karl Palachuk, Ian Luckett.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

The post 5 expert predictions for MSPs in 2026 appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 309 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• Do marketing you can’t automate or scale: In the early days of trying out new marketing, you can’t always jump straight to automation. Manual testing helps to figure out what marketing actually works for your MSP.
• MSPs: Imagine losing 17,000 connections on LinkedIn overnight: You don’t own your connections, your content or your interactions on LinkedIn… they belong to LinkedIn, you just get to borrow them. MSPs should have a combination of borrowed and owned audiences.
• The simple video every MSP needs to increase sales: Explainer videos are a key marketing tool and my special guest will explain how to create one and how to make sure it’s something your hottest prospects are desperate to watch.
• The Marketing Minute: Don’t miss this quick and easy YouTube marketing tip.

Do marketing you can’t automate or scale

In a world where you can automate almost anything so it can be done at any scale, here’s the strangest advice you are going to hear from me. I believe sometimes you should deliberately do marketing that will never scale up and that you can’t automate, even if that means that you personally have to sit and do a whole chunk of work.

Why would I recommend this? Surely one of my jobs is to make your marketing easier. Well, yes, that’s true once you’ve figured out what marketing works, but doing marketing experiments yourself is an important part of figuring out the specific tactics that’ll work for your MSP.

As business owners, you and I love things that are scalable and repeatable, right? We like processes, automation, efficiency, and yes, that’s where you want to end up with your marketing. But in the early days of trying out a new marketing channel, you can’t always jump straight to automation. And here’s why. Not all marketing works for all businesses. What works brilliantly for the MSP down the road from you might flop for you.

The only way to find out what marketing actually works for your business is to test it manually in a way that doesn’t scale.

For example, let’s say you want to try LinkedIn outreach, and sure, there are tools out there that’ll blast out hundreds of automated messages every week. But if you don’t yet know what message resonates with your ideal prospects, then blasting out hundreds of messages just means you’ll annoy more people faster. Instead, you’re better off writing a handful of personal connection requests every day. Try different approaches, test out different messages and see what kind of response you get. Once you know what works, then you can look at scaling or systemising it.

Here’s another example, follow up emails. You might want to eventually build an automated nurture sequence inside your CRM, but before you do that, it’s worth sending a batch of personal follow-ups to prospects one by one to see which subject lines get opened, which wording gets replies. That kind of stuff. Once you know can then plug those learnings into automation and let software do the heavy lifting. And here’s my key point. Marketing is not a one size fits all game. Every market, every town, every vertical is slightly different. So in the early days of trying something new, you’ve got to be willing to roll up your sleeves and do the kind of marketing that just isn’t scalable.

Let me give you three more practical examples:

Number one – handwritten letters to prospects. Everybody has too much email, but nobody gets lots of nice stuff in the post anymore through the mail. So a short handwritten note to a dream prospect stands out a mile. You can even include your business card or a printed case study and sure, yeah, it takes time, but that personal effort is exactly what makes it memorable.

Number two – personally following up after events. Instead of dumping business cards into a CRM and firing off a generic email, pick 5 to 10 people you met at an event and send each of them a tailored follow-up. Mention what you talked about when you met and link to something useful or suggest a quick call. It’s way more effort than an email blast, and those connections tend to stick.

And number three – LinkedIn voice notes instead of typing. Another thanks for connecting message, send them a 20 to 30 second LinkedIn voice note. It’s personal, it’s surprising, and it shows there’s a real human behind the profile. Of course, you can’t outsource this. You can’t really automate it, and that’s exactly why it works.

I guess the way to think about this is it’s R&D, it’s research and development for your marketing. Once you’ve tested and proven what works for your specific MSP, then you can start building processes, automations and systems around it. So don’t be afraid of doing scrappy unscalable marketing in the short term. That’s where the insights come from. It’s how you figure out what works. And once you know what works, then and only then do you scale it up and automate it.

MSPs: Imagine losing 17,000 connections on LinkedIn overnight

MSPs, imagine if you logged onto your LinkedIn one day and instead of those thousands of connections that you’ve slowly built the hard way, you see an error message because you’d broken some rule on LinkedIn that you didn’t even know about, and some algorithm somewhere decided to shut down your account. No warning, no opportunity to put it right, you’re just locked out.

Now, this might sound like fantasy, but it’s real and it’s happened to people that you probably know. Let me tell you about borrowed audiences on platforms like LinkedIn and why owned audiences are always a safer bet.

If you’re old enough to have gone to the movies back in the 1990s, do you remember what the trailers were like? All movie trailers back then were kind of the same. There was a voiceover guy with a really deep voice and he’d talk about the main character, usually Bruce Willis, being the wrong man in the wrong place at the wrong time. Well, that was my friend and channel legend, Matt Solomon, on Christmas Eve last year, 2024. I was flicking through Facebook, eating a mince pie actually, when I spotted this post. It said, and this was Matt talking: I’m reaching out with an important request. Remember, he put this on Facebook. He said, my LinkedIn account has been restricted for a post violation. And despite exhausting all standard protocols, 15 emails back and forth, I’ve only encountered copy/paste responses that lead nowhere.

Now, as the voiceover guy would say, Matt was an innocent man locked in a prison for a crime he did not commit. I mean, actually, really, what a nightmare. At the time, Matt had 17,000 plus connections on LinkedIn, and it looks like something that he’d posted had inadvertently tripped a safety algorithm somewhere. His account was automatically suspended. And what’s scary is this could happen to any of us. It could happen to you, it could happen to me at any time. LinkedIn is an amazing platform. I use it every day, and I recommend it as the number one place that MSPs go fishing for business. But its greatest limitation is that it is a borrowed audience.

You don’t own your connections, your content or your interactions on LinkedIn, they belong to LinkedIn.

You just get to borrow them because that benefits you and the platform at the same time. Other borrowed audiences include all other social media platforms, YouTube, online communities that you contribute to, you appearing in someone else’s podcast or in the media or anything like that. The alternative to borrowed audiences is owned audiences. These are safer as you have direct 100% control over what happens with them.

Examples include your email list, visitors to your website, subscribers to your podcast, the list of people who visited your trade show booth. The downside of owned audiences is that it takes a lot more work and cash to build them and get something from them. LinkedIn can make a post go viral with no work needed from you, but your podcast won’t go viral unless you push it and push it and push it for years.

I believe you need a blend of both kinds of audiences. And in fact, Matt Solomon does this. He has a lot of followers across social media, but also has a huge email subscriber list. In the unlikely event his CRM declined to send his emails tomorrow, well, that data is his and he can take it to an alternative CRM. I recommend to my MSP Marketing Edge members that they turn LinkedIn connections into data in their CRM, and we give them a checklist to do this and some specific messages to send out. This allows them to reach the same people through two different channels, but also gives them a safety barrier.

So tell me, what’s the situation in your MSP? If you lost your borrowed audiences tomorrow, could you still reach your leads and prospects? Oh, and PS Just like a 1990 Bruce Willis movie, Matt’s story does have a happy ending. He posted a few days later on Facebook that it had all been resolved and he was no longer in LinkedIn jail.

The simple video every MSP needs to increase sales

The Marketing Minute

Hi, this is Karl Palachuk from Small Biz Thoughts, and I have a super quick tip about how to share your videos effectively. If you post your videos on YouTube, there’s a great disadvantage sometimes because as soon as your video is done and your message has been received, it wants to play another video that is probably completely unrelated to whatever your message was.

Here’s the tip. Put your video into a playlist with other related videos, then share the link to the video inside the playlist. And when it’s complete, YouTube will serve up the next video in your playlist, and you get to keep that audience, at least for the first 30 seconds. Give it a try and let me know how it works.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Wil Seabrook, on LinkedIn, and visit the Light Touch website.
• Connect with my Marketing Minute contributor, Karl Palachuk on LinkedIn.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Let me know.

The post Do marketing you can’t automate or scale appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

The post This is a great use of AI for MSPs: Figure out your Ideal Client Profile appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 308 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• The 3 big reasons your best technicians might leave you: Surely one of the greatest fears of any MSP is that of losing one of your key technicians. Let’s explore the three big reasons why they might leave and what you can do to address those.
• How to turn tech newbies into your MSP’s biggest fans: If you confuse your prospects and clients with technology, it’s likely they will disengage and divert their attention elsewhere. Everything needs to be explained in the easiest possible way.
• Control freak? Your MSP may struggle to grow: Business owners are control freaks and often get so caught up in the details that they struggle to grow. My special guest shares how he could help you to improve your business by letting go.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Have you ever considered starting a podcast for your MSP? Here’s a few things you should consider before you dive in…

The 3 big reasons your best technicians might leave you

There are many fears that MSP owners have. One of them is of course being breached, another one is running out of cash. But surely one of the greatest fears is that of losing one of your key technicians. And I’m so sorry to even bring this up, but it’s something that we do need to talk about because there are always very specific reasons why any employee leaves any business.

I want to explore the three big reasons that technicians might leave you so you can address those in your MSP before something terrible happens.

You’ve probably heard that people don’t quit businesses, they quit managers or owners… whoever’s managing them.

Well, this is absolutely true, and in fact, studies have consistently shown that 75% of voluntary exits are due to the boss and not due to the role itself. Another survey that I found on Google show that 57% of employees left their job because of frustrations with their manager or leadership.

So here are the top three specific reasons that a technician might leave your business:

The first is poor management – a lack of support, micromanagement, or even bad communication. Managers who don’t coach, who don’t listen or who don’t trust their people well they drive them away.

The second reason is no meaningful growth or opportunities. High performers crave challenge and progression, and without it they get bored or worse, they leave.

And the third reason is feelings of being undervalued or unrecognised. If your techs aren’t getting feedback, recognition or meaningful rewards, they’ll just look for a place that gives them those things.

But now for the good parts and how to flip the script and keep your top tech talent engaged, motivated, and loyal:

Number one – coach them, train them, invest in them. Make development a habit, not just lip service. Training, whether you do this yourself or whether you pay for them to have training, it boosts retention massively and tailored development plans show that you’re serious about their future. Plus, if you invest in leadership, you won’t end up with accidental managers who drive people away. And of course that’s good because as you can develop managers who work for you, it’s going to be easier for you to hand over the reins for the business at some point when you want to take life a little bit easier. And we do get there, I promise you we do.

Number two – give them room to grow and give them meaningful work to do. Don’t let them get bored because they’re doing meaningless tasks all the time. Instead, provide them with challenging work to do. There’s something called job sculpting where you give them challenges that are designed specifically to their role to push them, to encourage them to grow, to expand their brain and do new things. And if they’re doing that and they can see there’s a clear path upward, that’s a very motivational job for anyone to do.

And number three – recognise and support them. So feedback is so important, especially in an MSP. That means doing regular one-to-ones, just be 5 – 10 minutes just sitting down, chewing the fat. Or you can structure it around what’s going well and what’s not going so well. You should also do public praise wherever you can, even if it’s just in front of the rest of your team. And small rewards go a very long way as well. Just a candy bar, a chocolate bar, a beer, something like that. It doesn’t have to be expensive, but if it’s something that that person really likes, like their favourite chocolate bar, then that’s a huge thing. And I would create a culture of appreciation as well where you appreciate your team and your team are all appreciating each other. It can’t be fake, you have to just do it, you have to show appreciation to your people and you’d be surprised how quickly they will start to show appreciation to each other. And this reduces staff turnover and builds loyalty.

And then of course, the other thing that you need to do is to make sure that your business and everyone’s direct manager, if that’s not always you, offers support and support for absolutely everything, not just what’s happening in their work, but what’s happening in people’s home lives as well. This matters so much.

So let’s just recap that your best techs leave for three big reasons: poor management, lack of growth, or feeling unvalued. Actually it can be all of those things, but by investing in training, offering them opportunity and showing genuine appreciation, you can turn things around and make sure that your best techs would never, ever want to leave.

How to turn tech newbies into your MSP’s biggest fans

Come on, let’s face it. Compared to you, every potential client is a tech noob and you need to impress them. But then again, you don’t want to blind them with science, with technology science. If you go over their head, you’ll put them off and they’ll never buy from you, but do the opposite and they’re much more likely to sign up to come and join you.

So how does someone as knowledgeable about technology as you find that common ground between you and the prospect? Do this right and it could just win you a brand new client.

The things that MSPs routinely deal with every day are often baffling for ordinary owners and managers.

And this hit home for me a few years back when I wrote a book about email security and I gave it to my MSP Marketing Edge members to use. So the idea is they can put their name on the cover and they can give it away on their website or use it in real life as a 48 page business card. The book is called Email Hijack. In fact, we’ve just refreshed it for 2026 for our members, and it tells the fictitious story of a business owner whose email is compromised and £12,000 (or $15,000) is stolen from his business bank account. It shows how easily that can happen.

Now, it took me 5,023 words to explain email security in a way that people who don’t know or frankly don’t care about it will understand it and in a way that they’ll be motivated to protect themselves and their company’s email. And that’s the challenge. When your world and their world collide. You’ve got a fundamental problem to overcome when trying to explain critical concept to ordinary people. Because even in 2025, they don’t care about all of this tech stuff anywhere near as much as you do.

When someone’s a little bit confused by something, they’re much more likely to dismiss it, to ignore it and move on than they are to take the time to understand it. We live in a very busy world, don’t we? And our brains are constantly trying to make sense of that world. So if you confuse someone with technology and acronyms, it’s more likely their brain will disengage and they’ll divert attention elsewhere.

You must see this with your own clients, right? Unless they’ve got a very specific problem that has to be fixed for a very particular reason, they’ll put up with a fudge, won’t they? Or they’ll just make do, because really they don’t understand what the problem is and their brain’s just not interested anyway. This was the challenge with writing that book to explain email security, blended layers of security, how hacks can happen, and how something as simple as one hacker getting into one email account can be disastrous for the entire business, and can see it lose thousands and thousands out of its bank account. And all of this had to be done in a way that non-technical people would understand.

That’s why it took me 5,000 words and I had to lock myself away in a luxury hotel for three nights to write it. True story. This is the personal burden that I carry. So the challenge for you is to break down what you do into the smallest possible, most easily understood chunks whenever you are talking to prospects. And equally as important, clients. The second they don’t get it, they will disengage and you won’t get the sale.

Life’s going to be harder for you. Everything needs to be explained in the easiest possible way. And by the way, this is not in any way about talking down to them, far from it. This is about you dropping down to their level and looking at things as they look at it. There’s a phrase I’ve been using for a few years that explains this concept really well, and I can’t remember which book I’ve stolen it from, but here it is, to influence what John Smith buys, you must look through John Smith’s eyes. Love that phrase. And this is exactly what we’re talking about here. In fact, within your MSP, the challenge is to be constantly interpreting the technical gobbledygook that is your world, into normal, everyday, easily understood concepts for the people that you are serving. And the clearer and more precise your business is, the easier it is for them to understand and the greater the financial rewards will be for you.

Because remember, these ordinary business owners and managers aren’t making decisions on suppliers and spend using their brains. Their brains are just rubber stamping the decisions that their hearts are making. This is why we have to create marketing that’s emotional rather than logical. So this is your heart having a conversation with their heart, with a bit of evidence to reassure their brain to rubber stamp the deal.

Control freak? Your MSP may struggle to grow

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

This week’s question is from Kenny, who’s MSP is based in New York, and he simply asks: Should I start a podcast?

Probably not. Because unless you have a real passion for podcasts and you’ve always itched to do your own, you’ll quickly find that a regular podcast is a total pain. However, the benefits are huge. I’ve found my podcast a key tool to reach people I would never have reached any other way. I’ve been able to set myself up as an authority figure. It opens doors for me to meet influential people through interviews. And of course, I’ve built a brand new audience. So if you do fancy it, these are the main areas to consider:

• First of all, target audience. This is easy if you operate in a specific vertical or a niche, but much harder if you just operate geographically, like in your local town. You have to really ask yourself why someone would listen to your podcasts.
• The next thing is you need a good podcast title. It needs to be a unique one that will catch their attention and also needs to be something that’s not already being done. Remember, ordinary people aren’t as interested in technology as you are. So a podcast just about technology probably won’t cut it, but if you did a podcast about using technology to improve or grow your business, that might be one.
• Next up is regularity. And doing it weekly gets people into the habit of listening. But trust me on this one, it is a treadmill. We work several weeks ahead, so we never miss an episode, that requires a lot of discipline. I say this to you as I’m recording this on Tuesday 12th August. How long ago was that? But we’re so disciplined. We work weeks and weeks and weeks ahead, and we’ve always got lots of podcasts in the bag ready to go. So if something happened to me for a couple of weeks and I couldn’t record podcasts, you would never know.
• The next thing is the format. You’ve got to look at the format because lots of podcasts are really just an interview with a guest, and that’s the easy way to do a podcast. But the downside is if your guest is a bit boring or the listener doesn’t like the guest, they’ll skip the whole podcast. So the other way to do it is to have several segments to the show like we do. So we have the intro where we tease all of the content and those lines I say at the beginning of the podcast are designed to hook you in to tell you what’s coming up in the show. Then you get me talking about something, then you get me talking about something else, a different subject. Then we have a short guest interview. Then this bit where we answer questions, which actually we’re changing next week, tell you about that in a second, and then a tease for what’s coming up next week. So that’s a good format, feel free to copy that format if that’s what works for your podcast. Or you could even just do you talking about something and then a short interview. That in itself would be enough.
• And then you’ve got to ask yourself about what specific content, what exactly are you going to talk about? And it is worth having a content calendar to plan this. So our content calendar stretches months into the future. It’s very flexible, very adaptable. We do move things around all the time, but the quickest way to lose motivation for your podcast is to be scratching around for content ideas.
• The one thing I haven’t talked about there is all the technology, because actually that’s all really simple. You need a good quality USB microphone. If you do your podcast on video, which I don’t recommend you do at the start, start on audio only and add video later, but you must add video because YouTube is used for a lot of podcast consumption. But obviously if you do your podcast on video, you’re going to need a decent camera, you’re going to need lighting, all of that kind of stuff. You can find out all about that on Google or AI. It’s the same with hosting. There are lots of platforms out there that host podcasts. We use one called Castos.

But by the way, if you do start your own podcast, will you drop me an email and let me know because I’m always fascinated to hear and see what MSPs are doing. My email address is hello@mspmarketingedge.com.

Now next week, we’re doing something a bit new with this part of the show. I’ve been asking all of the marketing and business growth experts that I know within the channel to send me a voice note, and I’ve asked them to think up marketing tasks that you can do in a really short space of time. We’re talking like a minute or just a couple of minutes. So over the next few months, I’m going to play their voice notes with their suggestions for you. And that starts in next week’s podcast.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Peter Bell, on LinkedIn, and visit the Techno Global Team website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post The 3 big reasons your best technicians might leave you appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 306 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• Your MSP should AVOID these AI tools: If you want to be more productive, do better marketing and ultimately grow your MSP, there are AI tools you’ll definitely want to avoid. Instead, here are five AI tools that you should be using right now.
• Why your MSP doesn’t stand out (and how to fix that): There are thousands of MSPs to choose from, so why would people choose you? Let me share a couple of good ideas with you and see if I can give you some inspiration.
• All successful MSPs have this in common: The easiest way to grow your MSP is to ask someone who’s already done it. My special guest has been growing MSPs for 20 years and has some ideas waiting for you to use.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Find out what “relevance increases results” actually means and how can it help with your MSP’s marketing.

Your MSP should AVOID these AI tools

It’s one thing being overwhelmed by your business and not having enough time to find new clients for your MSP, but it’s another thing being overwhelmed with the choices of AI tools that are supposed to save you time and reduce overwhelm in the first place. Have you found the options and variations of AI tools so completely bamboozling? Well, if so, you’re not on your own.

If you want to be more productive, do better marketing and ultimately grow your MSP, here are five AI tools that you should be using right now. And let’s be honest, there is a lot of noise about AI and a lot of it is hype. I follow a lot of AI newsletters very carefully to keep up to date with what’s happening, which of course is a never ending and somewhat overwhelming task in itself. Now while there is a lot of talk of people trying to do amazing things, often when you dive into the amazing things that all of these new tools should be able to do, they just don’t work that way. Well, they kind of work that way, but they’re never really good enough for you to rely on them. But saying that…

There are some very real and very useful tools that MSPs are already using to save time, create better marketing, and just get more done.

So let me give you a shortlist of what I think are the best AI tools you should know about right now:

Let’s start with the most obvious one, ChatGPT or Copilot or Perplexity or whatever your preferred tool is. And yeah, I know it’s obvious but hear me out because the trick with getting the best output from your general AI tool is giving it good input. So let’s look at content creation for example. The worst thing you could do is just say, Hey, ChatGPT, write me a blog post about backups because it’s just going to generate boring AI slop that isn’t going to bring any benefit to your MSP. So a better way to use it is to shape content that you’re already getting from trusted content providers and get the AI tool to customise it to your specific audience.

Let me give you an example. We create tons of content for our MSP Marketing Edge members and increasingly a number of them are using AI tools to tailor that content to their specific audience. So for example, some have created custom GPTs, which are then trained on their ICP, sorry to use two acronyms in a row there, but as you might already know, an ICP is an ideal client profile. So they’ve essentially taught the AI exactly what their ideal client looks like and then they put our content into that custom GPT and the AI tweaks and adjusts the content so it’s completely relevant to the ideal client. And you do this because relevance increases results. Can you see the power of doing that? You’re taking very well-written content that’s been put together by humans and then you are optimising it for the very specific audience that you want to reach.

The other big thing that I found recently with ChatGPT especially is that just giving it a prompt and expecting it to do a great job is rarely the answer. Instead, you’ve kind of got to challenge it to do something, give it a mission, perhaps get it to interview you, make it a two-way street. If you use ChatGPT like an assistant that you’re having a discussion with rather than a contractor you’re just giving a very short brief to and expecting it to get on, that’s where you get the best results – two way conversations.

My suggestion number two is OpusClip. If you’re making any video content, even just filming yourself giving tech tips, then this tool is magic. You upload one long video and OpusClip automatically chops it into short clips with captions, jump cuts and highlights. It’s perfect for LinkedIn or YouTube shorts and I’ve seen a few MSPs use this to turn a 5 – 10 minute video into a whole month of content.

Suggestion number three is Descript. And this is a game changer for editing audio and video because instead of fiddling around with timelines, you edit the transcript like a Word document and then Descript cuts the video to match. And you can remove filler words automatically. It even has a voice cloning feature, so if you say something wrong and you want to fix it without re-recording, it just kind of makes up your voice for you. Very clever.

Number four, Firefly.ai or Fathom or one of the other AI meeting assistants. And as you probably know, they jump on your Zoom or Teams calls, they take notes and then they summarise the key action points. And MSPs are using them for client meetings, initial discovery calls, and even internal strategy sessions because you get searchable transcripts. So if someone says, Can we talk about cyber insurance again next quarter? it’s right there and some of them will pull out those action points as well.

What’s funny these days is when you join a Zoom or Teams call with lots of people, you get almost as many note takers as you do actual humans joining the call. But like I was saying earlier about ChatGPT, just using something to automatically record and transcribe and summarise every meeting, there’s little real value to you because when do you ever read back those summaries? You don’t because you were in the meeting. But they can be great if you take those summaries and you use them as an aide memoir in the future. Anything that stops you having to go back and ask someone, What was it we were talking about? just saves everyone time, which is great.

I find it quite useful to take summaries and put them into another AI like ChatGPT and ask it to pull out the actions that you should have been doing or to summarise something that you might’ve missed. I know it’s kind of weird to use two AIs together, but sometimes one AI will spot something the other AI hasn’t.

And then suggestion number five, let me tell you about a productivity tool I’ve been using that has completely changed the way I work. It’s called Wispr Flow. Now this is a dictation tool, but you use the same tool across all of your devices and it learns about you and how you talk and what you like and what your preferences are over time. Now, I was kind of dubious when I started their free two week trial. I use dictation on my Mac and on my iPhone all the time, and that’s been a big part of how I work for a couple of years. So why did I need another dictation tool? But actually Wispr Flow is very smart.

It adapts to the platform that it’s being used in. So for example, it’ll be a lot less formal in a WhatsApp or an SMS conversation than it would in an email or if you’re writing a LinkedIn post. It also handles all of the formatting and the presentation of the content for you. The real power of Wispr flow is you just talk to it naturally rather than the stilted conversation that you have with normal dictation tools. So when I’m just dictating something on my iPhone, I’m saying something like, And I will get back to you open bracket when I can close bracket full stop smiley emoji. And it’s not a natural flow.

When I’m using Wispr Flow, I can just say, So I’ll get back to you when I’m ready and if there’s anything else that I can help with, will you just let me know? Thanks Paul. And it automatically arranges it into sentences and leaves gaps and puts emojis in and all of that kind of stuff because it’s learned I like emojis in my texts. I mean even just something like leaving a pause as I’m thinking about something, it acknowledges that that’s the end of a paragraph and it starts a new paragraph. Or it can sometimes go back if I change my mind about something. So if I say, Can you get back to me about the cheese? Oh sorry, the cheese and the beef and the ham. Then all I see in the text is Can you get back to me about the cheese and the beef and the ham? Whereas most other tools that you use like this, you end up seeing cheese, cheese, beef, and ham. Does that make sense?

It will also pick up the way that you spell certain words and you can program certain things in. So if I go in and edit some texts that it’s just dictated for me, which is transcribed for me, then if I’ve changed the spelling, it will automatically add that to the dictionary and use that spelling again in the future. And I can tell it things right from the get go. For example, I have a colleague called Ami, but she spells it with an I on the end, not a Y on the end. And I say the word Ami quite a lot as I’m dictating messages to her. So I only had to tell it once that it’s Ami with an I and now it gets it right every single time on all of my devices. That’s the point. You do this on one device and it automatically updates on all of your devices. It’s very good.

I remember a few years back when I discovered a tool called Text Expander. That’s not an AI tool, but it was a tool that completely changed my productivity because instead of having to copy and paste repeat text, I just set up all the things I often type with short codes and I still use that today. Well, Text Expander and Wispr Flow together has had a similarly huge effect on me, and I find myself using Wispr Flow every single day, not just for work, but for personal stuff too. So tell me, which AI tools would you recommend to me right now?

Why your MSP doesn’t stand out (and how to fix that)

It’s as simple as this… there are thousands of MSPs they could choose from, so why would they choose you? Most MSPs simply cannot answer this question, and yet it’s the most important marketing question to answer. What’s your USP? What’s the reason you stand out? Figuring out the answer to this isn’t easy. So let me share a couple of good ideas with you and see if I can give you some inspiration.

So I’ve got this friend, let’s call her Debbie, and she’s not in our world, she works in a different sector and sadly she was just made redundant a few months ago, which is not fun, especially after nearly a decade in the same business. It’s kind of left her at a crossroads. She was already thinking of changing careers, but of course we like to be in control of when we do these things, don’t we? I was chatting to her the other day and said, if you could wave a magic wand and do any job, what would it be? And her eyes completely lit up and she smiled and she said, I’d love to work with animals. In fact, she said, I’ve just applied for a receptionist role at my local veterinarians, and then the smile faded, but they told me they’ve had hundreds of applications, I’ve got no chance.

Well, now it was my turn to get excited. I said, No, wait, standing out is a marketing challenge and that’s my superpower. Five minutes later I devised a brilliant plan for her.

Number one, she was going to bake a really big delicious cake and she is a great baker.

Number two, she was going to print her CV, her resume on high quality paper.

Number three, she was going to hand write a covering letter to accompany it, saying something like, I know that hundreds of people have applied for this role and I wanted to make sure you saw my application. You’ll be jumping for joy if you give me this role because… and then list three benefits that the owner of this veterinarian practice will enjoy by hiring her. Maybe add a humorous fourth one about an endless stream of fresh cakes.

Number four, put all of that in a brightly coloured box to keep it together.

Then number five, hand deliver the box to the veterinary clinic, like now, no delay in that, it’s got to be done urgently.

So if she’d done all of this just doing that wouldn’t have got Debbie the job, but it would’ve got her an interview, you can almost guarantee that, can’t you? Because as an employer, wouldn’t you be intrigued by a candidate who went to this much effort? I know I would. Well, I saw Debbie a week or so after we had this conversation, and of course I said to her, how did you interview go? And she admitted to me a bit sheepishly, oh, I didn’t do the cake thing. I didn’t want to stand out for the wrong reasons, which to me is just flipping crazy. Although I do understand how much fear she must have felt at the thought of pushing that much outside of her comfort zone. But here’s the thing, for many job roles and especially those that don’t require specialist skills, employers are spoiled for choice.

To get people’s attention you have to do things that other people won’t. And marketing your MSP is exactly the same.

The ordinary business owners and managers that you want to reach have hundreds if not thousands of other MSPs that they can pick from. In theory, they could hire an MSP anywhere in the world, so you must stand out to them. And one of the tactics I recommend to do this is something called an impact box, which is similar to what I recommended that Debbie did, but systemisable.

Here’s what could go inside your impact box: You should do a handwritten short intro note, handwritten stands out because it shows that you’ve taken the time and put in the effort. And if your handwriting is terrible, you get someone else in the office to do that. You’d also put in your proposal, or if you’re only at the meeting stage you’d put a confirmation of the meeting or the confirmation of the follow-up meeting, depends where you are in the sales process when you send this impact box. You’d put in there your buyer’s guide, and if you don’t have one, we give one to our MSP Marketing Edge members, in fact we’ve just refreshed it for 2026.

You’d put in there a selection of printed case studies and now that’s a third piece of printed material but all of these play a different part in influencing people. In fact, one idea is to put a video case study in there on a USB because obviously your prospects would never plug a USB from a stranger into their laptop, would they? You’d also throw in there some edible stuff like chocolates, biscuits, sweets, candy, something like that. And then some merch, some merchandise, a mouse mat, pen, a mug, whatever really. Just make sure the box looks really nice inside, use sheets of that crumpled tissue paper, and on the outside you could have some stickers printed with your logo or something like that.

You deliver that box to the right prospect at the right point in their sales cycle and it will completely blow them away. Doesn’t guarantee that you get the sale, but it guarantees you a place at the table. Now, what else do you think you could do to make your MSP stand out to prospects?

All successful MSPs have this in common

The best piece of advice in business is this… if you want to achieve something big like growing your MSP, the easiest way to do that is to ask someone who’s already done it. What would you ask them? Would you ask them what they did, what worked the best and what was a waste of time? Well, you are in luck because my special guest right now has been growing MSPs their entire life. So just for you, here comes some ideas waiting for you to use.

Hi, I’m Nicola Moss. I am the owner of The Fractional Marketeer and I’ve been running this business for the last few months, having had a 20 year exciting career marketing within some of the smallest and largest of MSPs.

That’s brilliant, and thank you so much for joining us on this podcast, Nicola. Obviously you’ve got this exciting new business going forward where I know you are already working with some MSPs and you have some gaps, some vacancies to work with others. Let’s see if we can fill those gaps for you. So we’ll talk about that and what you do later on towards the end of the interview. First of all, I want to look back at the last 20 years because someone who has been there in the trenches actually physically doing marketing for MSPs for 20 years has an immense amount of value. We all know that if you’ve been there and you’ve done it, the chances of you figuring out what to do and how to do it, it just gets easier and easier and easier. So give us a brief rundown of your career. How did you get into marketing MSPs in the first place and what kind of MSPs have you worked at?

So that’s a really good question. When I left university, I managed to get my first marketing role in oil and gas actually, and thought that might be a sector that was quite fun and exciting, decided that it wasn’t. And I relocated, and with that location came a new job and that job happened to be born out of an engineering company but turned itself into telecoms. I joined there when it was very small, 30 odd people, very tiny company, and I was given the best opportunity of my career and I took it and I ran with it and did everything that I possibly could and stayed there for 10 years. I loved it. And then decided that the time was right to widen my experiences a little bit and join other MSPs. And I’ve been in MSPs ever since, really pretty much.

I think once you’re in the channel, it’s really hard to get out to the channel, isn’t it? It’s fun. And there’s so much change, you can’t ever get bored, let’s be honest. It’s not like being a dentist or something where you are waiting 20 years for a new drill to come in or something like that. I couldn’t imagine anything worse. So you started marketing MSPs around 20 years ago, so around about 2005. And obviously the world was different in 2005, nevermind the technology, nevermind marketing. What are the sort of the big shifts that you’ve seen that have made either been the biggest challenges or have made the biggest difference to MSPs over those last couple of decades?

So it’s an interesting question that actually, and I’ve been reflecting on that over the last couple of days, and I think there’s positives and negatives of this. I think some of the biggest shifts that I’ve seen are 20 years ago we were in analog marketing, so we had telemarketing, events and direct mail and pretty much that was all that we had, especially in small MSPs where budgets were limited. And I was in a small MSP. So 20 years ago you had to be really creative with marketing and you had to know where to spend the money to get the best bang for your buck. And I think I spent quite a long time perfecting that. I think they call it gorilla marketing now.

I did run some really, really high profile branding initiatives for Opal Telecom while I was there. It’s now Talk Talk Business. And they were fun and exciting and I guess in that day as well, what equally didn’t happen, I guess, which is different to today, is that we weren’t measured on things. There weren’t so many KPIs. We didn’t really look at return on investment in the way that it’s looked at now. And the measure was are we growing as a business and the measure was we actually doubled our turnover year on year, phenomenally, phenomenally quick, and it was hard to keep up.

So I guess those are the two sort of different challenges. I think now we’re in a much more digital world. We have been probably for the last 10 years or so, maybe slightly more digital and social. And my sort of thought process I guess for the future, I know you haven’t asked this question, is what are we going to do next? And are we about to change and are we about to flip? And I actually think that the answer is yes to that.

People have digital fatigue and I think there’s going to be changes in marketing ahead, but we don’t know quite what they will be yet.

Well, let’s go with that question, because you’re right, that was going to be my next question, which is if you’ve been doing something for 20 years and you’ve seen the evolution of that, what’s next? We are fully digital, and I recommend to my MSP Marketing Edge members that they occasionally do some analog stuff because analog stuff stands out. We give them a printed newsletter every month, and I say, print 50 to 100 copies, send that out to your hottest prospects to your Dream 100, the concept of your hottest small bunch of prospects. And the reason we do that is because 20 years ago, loads of printed newsletters landed in doors and today no one does that. So it gives you huge standoutability. So let’s look at that then the next couple of years you think there’s going to be a flip? Is that going to be based around AI or something else?

I think AI is going to play a role, it’s certainly going to play a role within SEO marketing anyway, and I don’t don’t know yet how that landscape is going to change, but when people are searching Google now, it presents the whole AI spiel before you even get to the number one. So fighting for that number one has become even harder, and we don’t really know how that landscape is going to evolve, I think. And you’re right in terms of that, so we talked a bit about digital fatigue and I think people are open to face-to-face communications, they’re open to that more personal touch, they’re open to that different side of marketing that was perhaps from back in the day. And perhaps we just need to evolve from back in the day and bring it into today’s kind of marketing. But I definitely think that there’s going to be a change.

Yeah. Well, you’re preempting all of my questions. Oh, by the way, I should clarify, we don’t pre-plan these interviews, so I never provide lists of questions or anything, these interviews are always just go with the flow. It’s clearly Nicola and I are thinking the same way, which is really cool. So we’ve looked at the past, we’ve looked at the future. Let’s talk about what’s working now. So you have, as you said earlier, a few months ago you came out of actually doing marketing for an MSP and now you’re working with a number of them. So obviously we have no idea really do we, what’s going to happen. And you and I as marketers are following trends, are reading and consuming and researching just as much as anyone else because I think we’re all just sort of finding our way into the future. But in terms of right now, so as this interview goes out late summer 2025, what’s working for MSPs now to generate leads and turn those leads into initial sales meetings?

That’s a really tough question, and I think with the MSPs that I’ve been speaking to, I actually think that there’s an area where, I mean, we could probably say that actually it’s quite tough right now for MSPs and certainly marketing is equally quite tough. And I think there’s challenges with who they’re marketing to. Budgets are tightened. I think IT projects are being undertaken, but they’re being selective about which projects they want to undertake and when. So I think that there’s certainly a lot of challenges for an MSP. And of course if you are selling managed services, there’s only really ever 3% in market, so to speak, that’s able to buy. Most MSPs actually do say that they retain kind of like 95, 97% of their customer base. So the market is sort of very small anyway, and they’re equally being quite cautious about who they’re engaging with and how.

What’s working with MSPs right now, I think they’re still using the more interruptive forms of marketing that there are, the telemarketing, the email side of marketing. I think the way that MSPs are and the way that marketing is measured, I think people want to try and see the return. And that’s where people can see the return and it’s measurable and you can send out a hundred emails and you get one response and you can figure out whether that’s a channel that’s worth investing in or not. I think what the smaller MSPs particularly, and I totally get it, what they’re perhaps not embracing so much is the brand side of things. So it’s all very much tactically lead driven activities. But what happens, you’ve got your 3% that’s in market and you’re doing a marketing campaign that lasts three months, what happens for the rest of the nine month period?

And that’s where I think the strategic marketing really should come into play. You really probably need to be looking at the peer review sites for example, a lot of the buyers, 70% of buyers Gartner say, actually do their buying before they even arrive on a company’s website. So unless you’re sort of present in those areas, it’s going to be very difficult for you. You are sort of battling uphill all of the time. And whilst the uphill battle, I think the MSPs are doing okay at, you’re going to become fatigued really quickly before you get to the top of that. And I think what we need to do is try and get MSPs to turn themselves around a bit and look more into that bigger picture, the branding side of things and things which are actually really quite difficult to measure, but that are so important in terms of turning a business from that sort of outbound interruptive marketing into that sort of inbound, Hey, I’ve just had 10 leads land in my inbox and I don’t know where they’ve come from, sort of MSP, but actually it’s around all of the periphery marketing activities that happen.

I agree. So there’s a couple of really positive things that come out of that. The first is, as you said, 97% of clients stay with their MSP. So it’s tough to win a client, but when you win them, you keep them forever. They don’t go anywhere until they go bust or they’re acquired or there’s some catastrophe which separates that relationship. So hard to win, but easy to keep is the first positive. I think the other positive is Nicola, is that everyone is in the same boat. And if you’ve got 20, 30, 40 direct competitors in your market, let alone the thousands of others you’re in competition with, because any MSP can service any client anywhere more or less, until they’ve got to get physically boots on the ground. Everyone’s got the same problems and everyone’s battling through it. And I’m sure you see this, the MSPs who win are the ones that keep going and keep investing in marketing. And even if it’s small amounts of money and small amounts of time, it’s always better to do little bits of marketing regularly. And I mean every weekday to be doing something every weekday than to do a campaign here and stop and do nothing for six months and do something and stop and do something for a few months and it’s just keeping going is such an important thing.

Yeah, absolutely. And well, like we say, there’s so many different channels now that are available to marketeers. And again, the challenge for marketing is we kind of really need to be present in all of these channels, but we’re sometimes very dictated by budgets. And it’s about trying to figure out which of those channels are going to provide the better ROI for that MSP. And that’s a learning curve, and there isn’t a marketing blueprint for that. Every organisation is different yet facing very similar challenges. And I think it’s the role of marketing is to go in and figure out and navigate how we can create that niche for that MSP and start to tell the narrative and tell the story and build the brand on an ongoing basis so that it’s not just that ad hoc campaign here, an ad hoc campaign there, but it actually starts to build a narrative around that MSP and why that MSP is unique and why that MSP is credible and why somebody should actually choose that MSP as their provider.

Yeah, exactly that. And you get that momentum from doing that and keeping that going. Nicola, let’s stop there. Thank you so much for your time. So you’ve come out of working for an MSP, you are now a fractional marketer, which let’s put that in slightly different terms. Most MSPs listening to this or watching this on YouTube will have heard of the VCIO virtual chief information officer. I would look at Nicola as a VCMO a virtual chief marketing officer. Tell us briefly, what do you actually do to help MSPs? Are you helping with strategy? Are you helping with implementation? And then finally, what’s the best way to get in touch with you?

Oh, brilliant, thank you. It’s a bit of both actually. So it depends on the MSP and what they’ve sort of got existing at the moment. Some MSPs that I’m working with, they already have a marketing function of sorts, and that marketing function can be sort of part of the commercial team or part of the sales team, and perhaps it’s sort of reached the limit of what the sales or commercial person knows about marketing and they’re wanting somebody to come in and help drive that strategy. Or it could be an MSP that kind of needs support and help and guidance in understanding actually what is their niche, what is their USP, what is their ICP, and how do we go about creating the messaging framework in order to be able to sell into them? And I can help along with those things as well. And very tactically, just some MSPs don’t have any marketing at all. So equally very happy to roll my sleeves up and get stuck in to. The best way to get in touch with me is via my website. It’s thefractionalmarketeer.co.uk. Or you can check me out on LinkedIn, search for Nicola Moss, and hopefully that will bring you to me and love to connect and see how I can help.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Lucas, from an MSP based in Denver, would like to know what is meant by the term “relevance increases results”?

“Relevance increases results” means that any piece of marketing needs to be as relevant as it can be to the person who’s reading it or watching it. Because the more relevant they perceive it is to them, the more likely they are to take action on it.

So for example, if you had a piece of content about laptop encryption, you’d say to your leads and your prospects: This is what a good IT partner does without having to be asked. When you’re looking for a new partner, book a 15 minute zoom with me.

With clients you’d say: Hey, laptop encryption. We do this automatically to protect you and your data. It’s why you need to tell us if ever you get a device elsewhere and start using it in the business. If you do, just call the help desk so we can check the encryption and other cyber security safety factors for you.

And then this is what you’d say to stubborn break/fixers who will not switch to managed services. You’d say to them: Do you want us to check all of your laptops and make them safe for you? There’s this thing called encryption, which you may not have switched on in your laptop. Why don’t we just check that it’s an easy thing to do and not expensive?

And of course, any kind of interaction like that with a stubborn break/fixer is a start of a conversation to talk about why they really should move over to being a managed services client of yours.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Nicola Moss, on LinkedIn, and visit The Fractional Marketeer website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post Your MSP should AVOID these AI tools appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

The post MSPs: How the AI revolution creates a marketing opportunity (not the one you think) appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 304 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• 3 big pricing mistakes that kill MSPs’ sales: MSPs inadvertently make these blunders with the way they price up their offering and it often kills sales. Here’s what to do about it.
• This video MUST be on every MSP website: Videos on your website are really important. And a testimonial is the single most important type of video that could help a prospect decide to sign a contract with you.
• The truth about SMS marketing for MSPs: Every single business owner has a mobile phone and yet not many MSPs are using that to their advantage. My guest is an SMS marketing expert and is going to tell us whether SMS text messaging is a viable marketing tool for MSPs.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Do you have trust badges on your website? Find out how to use them to get the most credibility for your MSP.

3 big pricing mistakes that kill MSPs’ sales

Getting new clients for your MSP is hard enough, so you should do everything you can to avoid making mistakes, right? Often I see MSPs inadvertently making blunders with the way they price up their offering. It’s a complicated subject with many traps you can get caught in. So let’s look at three common price mistakes that MSPs make that are killing sales.

Let’s talk about something that makes a lot of MSPs uncomfortable… pricing. It’s not the most exciting topic, but wow, it can make or break your sales. I’ve seen so many great MSPs – really solid, technical, brilliant businesses run by brilliant people – struggling to grow simply because they’re just making the wrong moves with their pricing. So let’s fix that.

These are the three big pricing mistakes that can kill your sales, and of course, how to avoid them.

Mistake number one: charging too little because you’re scared of losing the deal, and this is so common. Have you done it? You’re sat in a sales meeting, the prospect starts questioning your price and suddenly you’re talking yourself down. You say that you think you can find a way to shave some money off the price by reducing the package, or maybe you can find them a discount. But by doing this, you’re kind of leaving money on the table just because you want the client to say yes. Here’s the thing though, when you undercharge, you actually scare off the best clients. They kind of think, why is this MSP so cheap? What corners are they cutting? Plus, you’re setting yourself up to resent the work later on when the numbers just don’t add up. So here’s what you should do instead… price confidently, know your value. If you’re delivering 24/7 monitoring, a great help desk and really strong security, don’t price it like you’re just fixing printers on an ad hoc basis. That’s crazy.

Mistake number two: making pricing complicated. I’ve seen some MSP proposals that are like three entire pages of line items. So here’s your base support, this bit’s extra, this is going to cost you this, we forgot to include this. It’s just so confusing. And the problem is that confused people don’t buy. So what you do instead is you bundle things, you create clear packages. You could call that bronze, silver, gold. You could call it something else, it doesn’t really matter what you name it. But the point is that when it’s all put together and prospects can look at it and go, Oh, right, yeah, I see. So we’ve got this or we’ve got this, which is a bit more, or we’ve got this, which is even more, do you know what, we’re going to go for the middle package for us. They’ve got to feel confident. They’ve got to be able to make decisions faster without overthinking it, but going on that gut feel. And packaging everything together, bundling it up and taking out a lot of the detail that they’re not really interested in anyway, that’s the right way to do this.

Mistake number three: hiding your price completely. Some MSPs think they’re being really clever by refusing to talk numbers until the very last moment. Perhaps you’re in a sales meeting, you’ve presented your proposal, and the only thing to discuss now is the price. But the reality is, that just creates friction. Buyers today like to know roughly what they’re in for before they even commit to a meeting. If they can’t get any sense of cost at all, they might never engage with you at all. So here’s what you do instead. You don’t have to plaster exact numbers on your homepage, but you do need to give people a rough estimate. You need to say something like, Our typical clients invest between X and Y per person per month. Or better still embed a price calculator on your website. Just a heads up, I’m going to be talking about price calculators a lot more in the weeks ahead. I’ve got a little announcement for you on that soon. Either way, you’re setting expectations early, and by doing that, you’re attracting people who are a good fit. And by the way, giving pricing at the point that people are doing research into which MSP they might even want to talk to, that is absolutely a competitive advantage right now.

So let me give you a quick summary of those three things to do. Number one, stop undercharging out of fear. Number two, keep your pricing simple and clear. And number three, don’t hide your price at all, be upfront enough to build trust. Get those three things right and you will close more sales with better clients without ever having to fight on price.

This video MUST be on every MSP website

If your competitors have videos on their website and you don’t, there’s every chance that they’ll win sales and you won’t. Yes, videos really are that important. However, are all videos equal? Well, no, not really. The single most important type of video that could help a prospect decide to sign a contract with you, is a video testimonial. But if the idea of trying to create a video with your happiest most satisfied client fills you with dread, this is how you make it a walk in the park.

Collecting lots of social proof is one of the most important things that you can do to persuade someone to pick your MSP. Social proof in the form of reviews, testimonials and case studies influences people at a very deep psychological level. In fact, it talks to us at caveman level, right at the core of what drives our behaviour. Let me explain that.

A hundred thousand years ago, we were not at the top of the food chain. There were big scary monsters with huge jaws and jagged teeth that could and did eat us. And so the cavemen and women who survived to breed and essentially lead on to us today, they were the ones who were better than the others at not being eaten. So we know this today as survival of the fittest and how it drives evolution, but one of the most powerful tools to avoid being eaten is to watch what everyone else is doing and do the same.

It’s a kind of a herd mentality that you still see today in animals at the bottom of the food chain. If one sheep runs all the other sheep in the flock do the same. Now, importantly, they don’t think about this. They just feel very strongly compelled to act and copy. It just feels safer that way. So that’s what cavemen did back then, and 4,000 generations later, it’s what decision makers still do today.

Most of the time people prefer to do what most other people are doing, and that in a single sentence explains why social proof is so powerful.

When we see other people and we perceive that they’re like us and they clearly trust a business, it feels safer for us to do exactly the same. And just a side note, by the way, if you, you’re one of the tiny, tiny minority who proudly claims, oh, social proof has zero influence on me, then look out for the Saber-Tooth Tigers because they are watching you closely and they are licking their lips. Now, the most powerful form of social proof is a video testimonial. You get a happy client on camera telling your prospects why they trust your MSP, and you want that, right?

I’ll be honest, there’s a fair amount of work to get it, and of course you can throw money at the problem to outsource it. There’s a couple of services, one I found is remote videotestimonials.com. That’s not a recommendation by the way, that’s just a suggestion. Or you could use a platform that prompts your clients like storyprompt.com, which I think is risky for an MSP as it’s so easy for your clients to ignore a platform like that, and let’s be honest, you only have dozens of clients to ask, not thousands. Or you can follow my step-by-step instructions and do it yourself. So I’ve pulled together 10 steps. In fact, I did this a few weeks ago while personally interviewing 16 of my MSP Marketing Edge members about their experience with us. And it was such fun. In fact, we’ve compiled a series of video testimonials that are now on our website. You can actually see those at mspmarketingedge.com/reviews. But here is how to get your own testimonial video made.

Step one, be very clear what you want to achieve. So the perfect video testimonial is about 30 to 60 seconds long. It tells a story about how someone went from A to B with your help, and it makes the viewer feel happy that they could achieve the same result working with you. Now, never forget that someone hires your MSP because they want a specific outcome. They want ease of growth, extra profit, increase productivity, less staff moaning, all of that kind of stuff. That’s the transformation story that you want to tell. The format for your testimonial video should be, first of all to set the context. So say something like, this is a problem that many business owners face. Then you need to demonstrate relevance, One in four small business owners will have this IT problem. Then lay out the problem, tell them what it is. Then poke the pain, you take whatever it is that’s annoying that business owner or annoyed them in the past and you literally poke it and show what a pain it was to them. And then you present the answer and the answer is always something that only an IT professional like you can do. Then of course, you show a happy outcome. So we’ve shown in that whole testimonial video a transformation story.

Step two, decide who to ask. For this, you just ask your happy clients. Just be a hundred percent sure they are happy with the service before you ask, because nothing aggravates an unhappy client more than a mistimed testimonial request. Assume around one in five will say yes, and in the next step, we’ll make it easy for them to say no without feeling awkward. By the way, if your personal idea of hell is appearing in someone’s video, don’t assume that everyone feels that way. Some people like me love being in videos and are excited to be asked. Being filmed can be showbiz to some.

Step three, phone them or send them an email. Now you know your clients best. Some respond best to a chat on the phone. Others prefer information in a written form that they can digest before acting. So here’s an actual email that you can swipe and use. The subject line should be, Can I ask a favour, please? And then in the body you say, Hi name. Can I ask you a favour please? We’re always looking for more clients like you. (That’s a critical line) I’m going to launch a new marketing campaign soon, and at the heart of it, I’d like my favourite existing clients to tell my future clients why they should join us. How would you feel about telling us how well we’ve looked after you? Interested? Here’s my live calendar.

Step four, choose a video platform. And please don’t do these interviews on Teams or Zoom because those platforms prioritise the live call at the expense of the recording. You want a platform that works the other way around, it prioritises the recording at the expense of the live call. Personally, I use SquadCast for these kinds of interviews and I actually use that for my podcast interviews as well. An alternative is Riverside. Both of these record the video in quality on each person’s computer and automatically upload it to the cloud. Now, I highly recommend you record the video twice. And what I mean by that is, while using the platform, you might remote in to run a screen recorder on your client’s computer, with their permission of course. And that way, if the cloud recording fails, you can retrieve the backup. And trust me, your client’s patients will not extend to doing the same interview twice.

Step five, use this format to make your client feel great. So you know the purpose of the interview is to get the video testimonial, but it’s also a great chance to strengthen your bond with your client. So follow this format, banter, interview banter. And the banter either side of the interview is actually really important. Your client will probably come onto the call with something that they want to talk about, so you give them that time so they can see that you are prioritising their needs and wants. And remember that the interview itself is kind of unusual and maybe even exciting for them. If they ask lots of questions about it, share with them how you’ve done it. In fact, feel free to steal my advice here and pass it off as your own, I’m quite happy with that.

Step six, ask these questions. The key to any good interview is to ask open questions and not closed ones. Closed questions have a finite number of answers, and they produce boring yes, no answers. Did you have breakfast this morning? It’s yes or no, right? Open questions have an infinite number of answers, and they produce exciting answers. What was the best thing about your breakfast this morning? Here are some actual questions that can get you started, and don’t be a slave to them, just use them as guidance to help you get the story out of your clients, but make sure to listen to their answers and ask relevant follow-up questions. Some of these, by the way, use the technique of asking multiple questions in one go, and that might seem weird, but it actually sets boundaries of what you want your client to talk about. You are guiding them to give relevant answers, and you’re also asking questions in a way that encourages them to give self-contained answers. Self-contained answers are answers that make sense without needing to hear the question that was asked, and those make editing the video really easy. My final piece of guidance on questioning is to use silence as a tool. When your client has finished their answer, just stay silent for a few seconds. Some people fill the silence by continuing to talk, often their second answer is better than their first answer so don’t you be the person to fill the silence, let them fill the silence. Here are the example questions I suggest:

Give us the 30 second story about your business. What do you do? How long have you been going? What kind of clients do you work with? (Remember how I said you’ve got multiple questions in one question there it sets a context of what you want them to talk about). Next question…

How important is technology to your business? If your technology didn’t work properly, what chaos would that cause? Before you started working with us, what kind of problems did you have with your technology? And how did those problems affect you? And another question…

And now those problems have been removed by us, what kind of difference has that made to you and your staff? This is a good one…

What was your biggest fear when considering using us? Did it come true? And if not, what happened instead? And here’s another one…

What’s your favourite part of your experience with our service? Tell us why. Then really my favorite, and the final question to suggest to you…

If your best friend owned a business and was looking for a new technology partner and you would recommend us, what would you say?

Step seven, is to find an editor. Once you’ve got good footage, you’ve done the hard work, now it’s onto the editing where the magic happens, and you’ll be tempted to edit this yourself to save yourself a little money. So please rethink that as a) it’s another job you’ll not get round to doing for weeks, and b) someone who edits for a living is going to do a much better job than you. Good editing is not about the technical aspects of cutting and splicing, it’s about the art of telling a story. There are thousands of editors out there, you’re looking for one who understands and has edited testimonials before. So look on Upwork or Fiverr and make sure to hire someone with testimonials in their show reel. You can make their life and your life easy by sending them an example of what you’d like your finished video to look like. An hour spent Googling and watching other businesses testimonial videos will save you hours in the long run. And remember, you could just send them a copy of my testimonial video at mspmarketingedge.com/reviews. And by the way, a smart way to find a great editor is to give the same editing gig to three different people. And this way you can compare all of the videos to see which one you prefer.

Step eight, what videos to output and where to put them. In an ideal world, you’d have at least three individual client testimonials, which you can then turn into four videos. So the first video you do is a mashup of all three videos, like a 60-90 second summary of how a number of clients feel about your MSP. But again, don’t forget to tell a story. Your editor will know how to do that by pulling out clips that take the viewer on a journey. And this video goes on your homepage as high up as you can. The higher up something is on a page, the more likely someone is to see it. This video will influence prospects more than anything else on that page. And then those three individual case studies, they go lower down the page. You’d also take those videos and put them on other important pages, especially your About Us page, your pricing page, and your contact page. And if you have other written testimonials, reviews, and case studies, consider gathering them all together into a new page called What Clients Say. Now no one’s going to sit and read all of your social proof, but gathering like 30, 40 things together in one place sends a very powerful message to prospects.

Step nine, maxing your testimonial videos. Once you have those videos, you can make them work hard for you for years to come. Here are some ideas… Share them on LinkedIn – you can pull out new clips from the raw footage to create new content to share, and you could easily use each clip every two to three months because content on LinkedIn is kind of disposable. You could send your testimonials page to prospects before a meeting. In fact, in his original book, They Ask You Answer, author Marcus Sheridan suggests that you don’t take any sales meeting unless the prospect has watched your social proof video first. By the way, Marcus’s latest book, Endless Customers, is an excellent read for MSPs. You could start a YouTube channel, pin the testimonial video to the top to be a channel trailer. My MSP Marketing Edge members get five videos a month from us that they can add to their YouTube channel alongside their testimonial videos. You could repurpose your testimonials into written case studies, and these can be given to prospects as part of a proposal. And then these written case studies can go across all the marketing assets that you have. Plus, of course, you can use a screenshot of the client from the video as an image to accompany it.

And then finally step 10, shelf life. If you’ve got this far, and you’ve done all of this, high five, because you now have a powerful marketing asset that most other MSPs will never get round to creating, and that gives you a distinctive advantage over your competitors. So make sure you keep the original footage in a very safe place. 18 months from now, you could get a different editor to create new versions for you, or you could use clips from older testimonials in new mashup videos. And in theory, you can use these testimonials for years and years and years, but I would assume a shelf life of around about three years, that would be a good time to go back to some new clients and repeat this process again. In fact, if you have the resources, you could even send in a local videographer, actually physically send them in, holding a camera and a microphone to film your client in person. And that would be a huge step up in quality.

The truth about SMS marketing for MSPs 

You’re putting me on the spot. I should probably know the answer to this question. Oh my gosh, Paul, I don’t know. I do not know. Okay, I’m going to say, I’m going to guess 1983, and it says hello.

Bit early, it was December, 1992, which is surprising. I’m 50, so I was like 18, and I can’t believe the first SMS was only sent when I was 18, that made my head explode. And it was an engineer in the UK working for a company called Vodafone, which still exists, which is one of our big four networks here. And the first ever SMS message simply said, Merry Christmas, simple as that. It was a test from one engineer to another, and in fact, they actually developed SMS, I think I read this somewhere else, they developed SMS just as a way for the engineers to communicate with each other when they were out fixing all the cell towers and stuff like that. And then some executive at Vodafone saw it and thought, oh, I think the customers would like that. And the legend goes, I think that’s where SMS comes from. So there you go. You can now use that as a bit of trivia in future podcast interviews and just look like a genius.

Chris, that’s been a really informative interview, thank you so much. So just tell us a little bit more about your business. What exactly is the platform? I mean, you mentioned you can send text messages from your laptop instead of a phone, which we can all immediately see the advantage of that, but what exactly does your platform do and how can MSPs go and have a look at it, maybe get a demo and see if it’s right for them?

In a nutshell, we allow engagement over SMS. And so as you generate leads, you can have conversations over SMS, and we help you drive speed to lead, so leads generated to get to that next step, to engage with them, to book a meeting, to drive revenue. And so we’re really big on that front end part of the business. So most companies come to us, we’re like, look, I’m generating these leads. I’m not engaging with them. And SMS has been this massive unlock of like, whoa, this thing works really well. So that’s a big focus for us. We’re a calling platform as well, so you can do messaging, calling, do a lot of really cool automation stuff as well. That’s actually really easy, it’s not an overwhelming task. So they can just go to salesmessage.com, check out the site. We’d love to show you what is possible with messaging with SMS. And soon we’ll have WhatsApp for the rest of the world, which would be really fun and exciting.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Ben, who is an MSP owner of seven years in Richmond, has this question: What is a trust badge?

A trust badge is any logo or any other kind of image on your website that makes you seem more trustworthy. Kind of makes sense, doesn’t it? It’s a way of sucking up credibility from businesses and organisations that you’re associated with. Many MSPs put vendor logos on their website, but please don’t do that. Trust badges only work when the person looking at them has heard of the company and ordinary people don’t know what Kaseya is.

A better form of trust badge is to put media logos. The mainstream media might not have big audience figures anymore, but they still have huge credibility. If you’ve been featured in any relevant newspaper, blog, radio station or TV station in the last five years or so, you can justifiably get a badge made up that says, as heard on or as seen in so-and-so radio station or XYZ TV or whatever, just as long as your appearance was in editorial and not the consumer complaints section. And no, you don’t need to ask them if you can use their logo this way, this isn’t legal advice, but often it’s better to seek forgiveness than it is to ask permission.

Now, if you don’t have any media appearances, then you could always use client logos. If you have a specific vertical, any clients will do because they’ll just see, oh, there’s other lawyers like me or dentists like me, or whatever your vertical is. For general businesses in a geographical area, then just pick your best known clients, who are the prolific networkers or the infamous businesses around town because every town has them.

One final thing, trust badges look really cool on a webpage when you make them all grayscale, and there are some really cool tools online that will make logos grayscale for you without you having to faff about with Photoshop. You could probably just do it in AI as well.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Chris Brisson, on LinkedIn, and visit the Salesmsg website.
• Mentioned books: They Ask You Answer and Endless Customers, both by Marcus Sheridan.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post 3 big pricing mistakes that kill MSPs’ sales appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Right now, as an MSP, as we stand here in September 2025, you have a massive opportunity...

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Just for a few moments, put yourself inside the brain of an ordinary business owner or manager.

You've had this MSP that's looked after you for a number of years. But just lately you've had this feeling that things aren't as good as they used to be.

• Service levels seem to have gone down
• Things just seem to take longer to get fixed
• And the prices have gone up at the same time

You're not desperately unhappy. But you feel as though maybe you've outgrown them or they've outgrown you. And perhaps it's time for change.

So you enter the research phase and start to look at who else could help you.

You start by Googling IT support in your town. I say Google, it could be an AI search (we really need to come up with a verb for that. GPTing? Perplexitying?).

The results just bring up website after website after website of SAME...

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Your heart sinks. As an ordinary business owner or manager, you don't know a great deal about IT support.

You know roughly what they do, and you have a vague idea how they do it. But you don't really care about the ins and outs of technical stuff.

You just want someone you feel you can trust.

Who's going to look after your staff, watch your back, and help your business to grow.

And then you stumble across a website that's different from all the rest.

This MSP doesn't have the same tired stock images and impersonal text. This MSP's website is packed with PERSONALITY.

And specifically it's the personality of the owner. As you look through the pages, you see photos, videos, and stories about this person, their staff, family and life. In fact, what you don't see is a lot of talk about technology!

You see their live calendar and book yourself a 15-minute video call. It seems like a smart move....

Story over.

Right now, as an MSP, as we stand here in September 2025, you have a massive opportunity.

I see very, very few MSPs put their authentic personality into their marketing. Instead, most just look at what their competitors are doing and do a version of that.

Maybe in the years ahead this will change. But as things stand today, you have a unique opportunity to stand out by being different.

And the easiest way to be different is to base your marketing around you.

This is what I have done, and it's working very well for me. I'm not a narcissist, I'm not an attention seeker. I just understand the power of using your authentic personality as a differentiation tool that no one else can touch.

Could you do this? Should you do this?

PS This is just the tip of the iceberg of the kind of advice and support I give my MSP Marketing Edge members. There are 700 of them across the world. And if your area is available, you should join us.

The post MSPs: Please, for the sake of sales, put your authentic personality into your marketing appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 302 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• 3 mistakes MSPs commonly make with Google: This is one of the most overlooked tools in your marketing toolbox – your Google Business Profile. Make sure you’re getting it right to get the most out of it for your MSP.
• Why MSPs should send personalised videos: Discover how these videos really can help to secure new clients for your MSP. And how when you open your mind to it you can spot opportunities to send them every day.
• What does great marketing look like in a mature MSP?: If you want to be successful, find someone who’s achieved the results that you want and copy what they do to achieve the same. And my guest this week has 26 years of MSP marketing expertise to share with you.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Ever wanted to know your MSP’s true search position in Google?  Find out how in one simple step…

3 mistakes MSPs commonly make with Google

There are three mistakes that MSPs commonly make with Google. And when I say three things, I really mean four things because the first is assuming that AI is now your new focus for getting search traffic. Well, it’s not. It’s currently sending only about 1% of traffic to your website. So the focus right now still has to be doing better on Google. But why and how do you do this? What are the three other things that MSPs are getting wrong?

We’re talking about one of the most overlooked tools in your marketing toolbox – your Google Business Profile. Now, before you skip this or zone out, do stick with me. Google Business Profile isn’t just for coffee shops and hair salons. Your Google Business Profile shows up when someone googles your MSP’s name or even if they just Google MSPs <my town>.

Your Google Business Profile is like your digital shopfront and it can make you look trustworthy… or not, if you get it wrong.

So let’s look at three common mistakes that I see MSPs making and how you can fix them quickly and easily:

The first mistake is to have a boring generic business description. If your profile says something along the lines of “We offer IT support and services to businesses”, oh, you’re not alone. Loads of MSPs do this, but it’s bland and it’s costing you clicks. So here’s the fix. Speak like a human and not a robot. Use the first sentence to make it clear who you help and what problems you solve. So try something like “We help <town name> businesses worry less about IT with fast friendly support, bulletproof security and advice with zero jargon.” I mean that alone, just using that sentence instantly sets you apart from other MSPs.

Mistake number two, no photos or photos from the year 2005. Did you know that businesses with photos actually get more clicks and more calls from their Google Business Profile? You don’t need to go and hire a pro photographer, just pull out your phone, grab a team photo, maybe grab some photos of your office, your vans if you’ve got vans, you could do a behind the scenes look at your setup, it could be your help desk, someone answering a phone, it could be your security dashboard with obviously the sensitive stuff blurred out. People just want to see people, they want to see who they’re dealing with. And even one new photo added like today or this week can boost engagement. If you added a new photo every week or at least once or twice a month, that could be huge.

And then mistake number three, letting your reviews go stale. Google Business reviews are like gold dust. They’re a critical step in social proof, where people are more easily influenced by seeing what other people like them are doing. Who are they buying from? Who are they trusting? If other people like them trust you, then they can trust you. That’s how they feel about social proof. But lots of MSPs stop asking for reviews once they’ve got a handful of them. And yet Google loves fresh reviews and so do prospects. So here’s the fix. Make this a weekly habit. Every Friday look back at your tickets and look at who you’ve helped that week. Pick one happy client, send them a one-to-one email, “Hey, would you mind leaving us a quick Google review, please?” It really helps. Because most people want their trusted suppliers to do well and just send them the direct link to your review page to make it easy.

Now, one step up from this is to add an automation to your PSA, which emails happy clients after the successful resolution of a ticket. And maybe you’d put some kind of condition in there so they’re not being emailed and asked for reviews all the time, but perhaps every specific user at your client is asked no more than once every three months for a Google Review until they’ve left a review, at which point you can switch that off in their PSA. However you do it, adding new reviews all the time really do stack up and they really do make you stand out.

Look, your Google Business Profile doesn’t need to be perfect, but it does need to be active. Avoid these common mistakes, rewrite your description, add fresh photos and make review requests part of your ongoing routine. It’s all low effort stuff, but it really pays off.

Why MSPs should send personalised videos

Tell me, have you had one of these… a personalised video message. While it can be quite common for vendors to send them, what about MSPs? Well, I’ve heard from some that are regularly recording and sending personalised one-to-one videos as part of their marketing, but is it worth it? Can these kinds of videos really help to secure you a new client for your MSP? Let’s dig into the pros, the cons and what you need to get started.

So do you send these personalised videos? I’m talking the kind that you record on Vidyard or Bonjoro BombBomb or some other platform. It’s kind of just you sitting down talking one-to-one to someone else through a video rather than through a text email. And when you open your mind to it you can spot opportunities to send these every day. To say hi to someone who’s just connected with you on LinkedIn. Or perhaps thank a client for their patience while you cleared a problem. Or maybe show another client how to do something with a screen share. Or you could explain a proposal to a prospect. Or maybe even introduce your team to a new vendor.

I do this. I send an individual video welcome to every single new member of the MSP Marketing Edge. I have a standard script and on Tuesdays every week I record several of these in a row because even though it’s scripted and it’s the same script for each person, I record an individual video for each person saying their name, just mentioning them, saying hello to them, and then getting across the points I want to make. And that’s why I use a scripted video. That can be quite painful, by the way, that approach when you’ve got like 10 new members at a week. As you can imagine, that’s a lot of videos to film, but it’s worth it. I want each person to feel like I’ve taken the effort, which I have, to do a specific video to them, even though it’s scripted with the specific points that I want to get across.

And I do think that that kind of personal attention really pays off in the long-term. It shows that you care if you’re willing to invest the time to do that. Now, the complete opposite of that is an unscripted video that you do much more informally. It’s just you sat in front of your laptop in the office or on your phone just talking about something that’s of interest to the person who’s going to be watching that video. And those kind of informal, almost more off the cuff videos where perhaps you are not in a great environment like a studio or your office – I’ve done them in Starbucks, I’ve done them in McDonald’s before – sometimes recording something like that in that impromptu environment can be very, very powerful.

As AI generated content becomes more and more widespread, we’ve got to be working harder and harder to be seen as human and real.

So let me give you three of many reasons why I believe MSPs like you should be sending personalised videos to prospects and clients:

Reason number one, is that they still have huge impact. People really do not receive personalised videos as often as you’d think. Even though the tech has been around for years, the average person might only get a couple a year. So anything that rare just stands out. Most of the platforms will create an animated gif as the thumbnail, and often it takes the first two or three seconds. So here’s an idea, do something smart like starting your video, holding up a card with the recipient’s name to really catch their attention and peak their interest.

Number two, you can track if they’ve been watched. Most of the platforms will tell you when a video’s been watched. Sometimes my videos that I send out are watched seven or eight times, and I interpret this as the video link being passed around the business, which is great. From a sales point of view you want to know if a prospect has watched your video, right?

And then number three, they help you to stand out and look real. As I said, most MSPs aren’t doing this. Anytime you realise, hang on, the vast majority isn’t doing this, that is an opportunity for you to stand out. Don’t do what most other MSPs are doing, do what most other MSPs aren’t doing.

So are you going to start using one-to-one personalised videos in your business? 

What does great marketing look like in a mature MSP?

I think this is a differentiator for us. My marketing team works off of tickets just like everyone else here. We have Halo PSA, every single blog, article, graphic design, website update, whatever we’re going to do, we ticketize it. Everyone in the company sees marketing as a peer because marketing is working tickets just like everyone else here. And I think that’s a critical thing. We’re an MSP, we’re technology solution providers. We need everyone here to look similar and act similar and work similar. That brings us all together and makes it so marketing isn’t “other”. You do those things, you have the right talent, you really get that strategy in place with the budget, get that leadership, and then you execute like everyone should at an MSP with tickets. And in your PSA system, you’re cooking with gas.

Wow. Do you know, I am sure you’re not the only person doing this, but you’re the first person I’ve personally spoken to who’s using their PSA as a marketing tool, which is just insane. And actually it makes sense when you talk about it that way because you are avoiding any disconnect between the people who are delivering the work and the people who are bringing in that work, because ultimately everyone’s just part of the same team. Right?

Exactly. And when everyone’s using similar tools, it really does make everybody feel like they’re on the same team. It’s one of those subtle, unspoken thing that just keeps everybody in alignment.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. John, you’ve been so generous taking us inside your business, and yet I feel like we’ve only captured about half a percent of what we could do. So please do come back on the show next year, come and tell us more about what you’re doing with your marketing. It would be great to have you back on. And just for those MSPs who are listening or watching this on YouTube who think, oh, this is a smart guy. I’d love to just talk to him for whatever reason, what’s the best way to get a hold of you?

So two great ways to get ahold of me. I’m on LinkedIn. I’m John Snyder net friends. You can also email me at johns@netfriends.com. Both ways are great, and I’d be delighted to hear from anybody.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Dane has run an MSP in New Hampshire for three years. It’s doing well but he’s concerned about his visibility online. His question is: How do I see my true search position in Google?

The problem with just Googling “IT support <your town>” in your normal browser is that it doesn’t give you a true sense of where your MSP actually appears in search results, because Google personalises the search results you see based on the actions you take. So if you often Google the phrase “IT support <your town>” and you click on your website, then over time your website will move up in the search results. But this will only be for you. Everyone else will see it in the original position where it appears for someone doing a cold search for that phrase.

So if you want to see what that is, an accurate set of search results that other people see, then always do that search in incognito. It really is as simple as that, and perhaps it’s something that you should be doing on a monthly basis just to check how well you are performing for that very simple search phrase “IT support <your town>”.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, John Snyder, on LinkedIn, and visit the Net Friends website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post 3 mistakes MSPs commonly make with Google appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 301 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• Should your MSP get HubSpot? A review: The system you use to manage marketing with your prospects has to be a good match for your MSP, otherwise you could have a very costly waste of time on your hands. So, is Hubspot the right choice for you?
• Free Windows 10 end of life marketing materials: Windows 10 end of life is now less than two months away and this could be a massive once a decade marketing opportunity for you.
• How to run your MSP by the numbers – and which to track: If I asked you about the most important marketing and growth numbers in your MSP would you know what those numbers should be? My guest works with MSPs to help them understand just this.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Do you know what a UTM is and how it can benefit your MSP? Let me explain…

Should your MSP get HubSpot? A review

Whatever you do, don’t pick a CRM for your MSP until you’ve heard this, and especially if you’re looking at HubSpot. The system you use to manage marketing with your prospects has to be a good match for your business, otherwise you could have a very costly waste of time on your hands. So which is the right CRM for MSPs? Have you been considering systems like MailChimp, MailerLite, Growably from the Tech Tribe or even HubSpot? Eight months ago I switched my business to HubSpot, so let’s review it eight months on and see if I’d recommend it for your MSP.

On the 14th of April 2009 I committed to my first serious CRM. It was called Infusionsoft. I know the date because I’ve still got the welcome email. Now, back then I owned a different business, actually one I sold in 2016 just before entering the channel, but even back then I knew that finding and committing to good software that sat at the heart of my marketing was critical.

At the time, Infusionsoft was the hot property. In fact, I’d say it was instrumental in our success building that business. It allowed me to build up a large audience of prospects. I had 12,000 of them in that last business and using Infusionsoft I could grow a relationship with those prospects using content marketing all sent out in that CRM. And I had a telesales team whose job was to call those prospects and book them in meetings with our salespeople, and that allowed us to convert the relationships from prospects into clients.

I look back now at that 2009 to 2016 period and realise that was kind of a golden time for Infusionsoft, because since then it really has gone off the boil. First, there was a focus on not just being a CRM and a marketing platform, but becoming a payment platform as well. And then the original founders left and then the new people that took over, the new management team, they rebranded it as Keap, and they created a second CRM, which seemed to do the same things as the first CRM but in a different way. And then the original founder took control again and then they tried to bring those two products together as one, and I’m not quite sure how successful that was. And then they were trying to turn themselves into an automation business, but there was no clear roadmap of what that meant or how they were going to do it, and they also massively hiked up the prices.

Now I’ve been using Infusionsoft (or Keap) in the MSP Marketing Edge since day one, since we opened back in 2017, and I’ve been feeling for a while up to last year that we needed to change our CRM. But our use of it was so extensive, I mean, it was weaved throughout the whole of the MSP Marketing Edge that the thought of migrating to something new made me feel sick inside because as I say, we don’t just use it for our marketing. We run all of our portal automation, all of our clever stuff gets run through the CRM. The trigger that caused me to change happened in October last year, so in 2024, when Keap was sold to a company called Thryv, and I decided that that was a fire sale just based on the sale price that was sold compared to their revenue. That was my trigger to move.

There were only really two CRMs that we took seriously. The first was GoHighLevel, which as you may know, powers Growably in the Tech Tribe and a whole load of other platforms used across the channel. So if you are with a vendor that offers you a CRM or any kind of marketing level automation, the chances are pretty high that they’ve built it on GoHighLevel because that’s what that does. It gives you something that you can white label for your agency or your platform, and we looked very seriously at this for a long time. The pricing is very good, but we found it a bit buggy and because it had been built to be white labelled to do what we wanted to do with it would’ve required a huge amount of development time, probably another full-time developer.

So instead we decided to migrate to HubSpot, and as I stand here eight months on, I am still highly impressed with the HubSpot product. It’s amazing, and I realise how much using Keap was holding us back. Using HubSpot has allowed us to do more things across more channels and connect all of our activity together in the backend so much more easily. You can automate so many more things and now we are held back by our ideas rather than functionality.

It’s very rare for us to come up with an idea and then not be able to figure out a way to do it on HubSpot.

It’s now quick and easy to spin out new marketing initiatives to generate landing pages that allow me to launch those initiatives within 24 hours of thinking of them, and I can track exactly what prospects are doing on our website and on email and some other platforms to a certain extent. We get an idea of what they’re doing on social media, you are a bit restricted by the actual social media platforms themselves rather than HubSpot, but there’s more and more things that you can put into HubSpot and integrate and it all just act together. It’s amazing.

Increasingly, my team and I are spending more time in HubSpot, encouraging more engagement and more marketing activity with our prospects. And our database is growing as well, our ability to see who is a good fit for our MSP Marketing Edge is getting better all the time, right down to we can even see which of the prospects in our database are in available areas. A key part of the MSP Marketing Edge is that we only sell it to one MSP per area and that’s a genuine lock. When we are working with someone, let’s say in your area, we won’t work with anyone else, so being able to narrow our prospect list down – we’ve got around about a thousand MSPs in our database who are in an available area, they could buy what we sell – this is incredibly powerful and the ability to do that is completely automated. No human has to do anything to maintain that list, which is constantly changing every single day. I love it.

So overall, I’m very happy with HubSpot. I do have, for balance, two complaints and both of them eight months on are minor complaints at this stage. But the first is that I found the onboarding to be a massive headache. The lady onboarding us was very pleasant to deal with and she knew her stuff, but standing back and taking a big picture view, it was really poorly informed. None of the info that we handed out during the very long sales process was passed on to the onboarding lady. It was really frustrating having to explain our business again and how we were going to use it. Because we were a complicated case, we weren’t just the CRM, we were going to use it to power our portal and we’re doing that migration now. It was actually very stressful during the onboarding.

They set some arbitrary deadlines for when the onboarding must be completed and those were often thrown at me almost as like a punishment because I got a little bit behind on the things that I said I do, and almost every single call started with, oh, you need to hit this deadline. You need to be off onboarding by a week on Thursday, I guess because the onboarding person had targets to hit. And at one point I said, I do feel like the tail is wagging the dog here. I’ve paid a lot of money for onboarding and I’m being beaten up during that onboarding because it was also wildly expensive. We paid a few thousand pounds or dollars for mandatory onboarding and there was no choice to skip that, which I do understand as it ensures that new clients use the software, but it was kind of useful, but it was also the worst value for money for anything I’ve bought in the last few years. We ended up hiring a HubSpot consultant who is amazing and he’s still working with us today. Side note, if you would like a referral into our HubSpot consultant, just send me a DM or just comment on this post and I’ll give you his details. He’s been invaluable in integrating HubSpot into our business, but he was an external consultant outside of HubSpot and of course he’s a cost as well. He’s cost us thousands and thousands of pounds, none of which I anticipated when I started migration, and I don’t resent that at all, but obviously the bill has been high. The overall HubSpot bill has been high.

Which leads me onto my other complaint. The cost of HubSpot. You really do pay through the nose for every single bit of functionality that you want to use and let’s not beat around the bush. What they have designed is amazing. It’s an amazing piece of software that works very well. It’s logical, it has a few bugs, but those bugs get fixed. There’s very few things in HubSpot that you cannot do. There’s very few things that you can’t figure out. It all seems to follow the same kind of flow. Someone somewhere or a whole team of people somewhere have really thought through a lot of how they’ve built it. As a SaaS piece of software it is insanely good. If all of my SaaS software was that good it would be great, but it also encourages you to use new functionality in a way which makes you want something and then realise to get that you’ve got to move up a tier or you’ve got to add on another seat or you’ve got to add another bolt on or something.

In my first few months using it, I’d get so frustrated because there’d be a piece of functionality which I really wanted, we needed it, and it meant I had to go up another new tier or buy more new credits for something or something like that. Now I’m working well within my boundaries of what we’ve got available, but I’m still spending £1500 a month, which is around about $2,000 a month. And of course I’ve got my HubSpot consultants bill on top of that, just for a few more months until we get our full migration finished.

For context, my Keap bill was around about $400 a month, so I’ve gone from $400 up to $2,000 a month. It’s a big jump, but overall I’m not unhappy. So would I recommend HubSpot to an MSP? Yes and no. I believe you’d only get the full value out of it if you really use it, and that probably means a full-time marketer. So if you’ve got a full-time marketer in your business, HubSpot is a great choice. If you don’t, and especially if you as the MSP owner or manager is doing your marketing along with the 4 million other things that you need to do, then I believe it’s probably overkill for you. And as I say, it is so expensive if you want to use all of the toys. For most MSPs, about 80% of MSPs, a basic CRM really is good enough, if you’re just using it as a place to kind of keep all of your prospects and just send emails to them and maybe do a bit of extra marketing once or twice a month. You don’t need anything more than MailChimp or MailerLite, something like that, or just join the Tech Tribe and get Growably.

It’s only the 20% of MSPs, probably the bigger MSPs, definitely those with a full-time marketer that will really use the advanced functionality of the more comprehensive tool. I spend 80% of my time marketing my business, and even then we’ve barely touched 50% of what’s available to us in HubSpot. We are working our way through it, but even for us where we are a marketing business that does a lot of marketing on our own business, it’s still a very big toolkit with lots and lots of things. We’ve no way maxed it out. So yes, HubSpot, amazing toolkit, and if you’ve got a big marketing operation in your MSP, I can definitely recommend it, but do be prepared to hand over a kidney to pay for it.

Free Windows 10 end of life marketing materials

Windows 10 end of life is now less than two months away. And while I’m sure you’ve been all over this with your clients for some time, I know from talking to lots of MSPs that there are many, many, many businesses out there that have no idea this is even happening, and that creates a massive marketing opportunity for you. Let me tell you how to take advantage of this even at this late stage and where you can get hold of some free marketing materials that you could be using in the next 60 minutes.

You and I know that Windows 10 is now in its last few months, but ordinary business owners and managers, your clients and prospects, they might be kind of aware that something’s changing, but it is not top of mind for them at all. Even those who do know that Windows 10 is dying are not really acting with urgency to upgrade, migrate, or sign up for extended security updates. Do you agree? Do you see that lack of urgency in your clients?

This is very exciting because Windows 10 end of life could be a massive once a decade marketing opportunity for you.

It’s almost impossible to make someone buy managed services before they’re ready to buy. This is one of the reasons your sales cycle is so long. Why? Well, that’s best explained by looking at the four big marketing problems that most MSPs suffer from. The first is that decision makers don’t know what they don’t know. They know that tech is important, but they don’t understand it, certainly not at the level that you do. And because of that, number two, they make buying decisions with their hearts and not their brains. You can’t make a cognitive decision about something you don’t understand, so they delegate the decision down to their heart, which picks an MSP based on feelings and not facts.

To complicate it further, number three, inertia loyalty rules. If you don’t understand something, it feels safer to stay with a supplier you don’t like than move to someone new. This is also known as better the devil. And the final problem, four, people only buy when they’re ready to buy. Because of the other three problems, you cannot force a sale until they are 1000% ready, willing, and able to move MSPs. Side note, these four problems are a double-edged sword. They make it slow and hard for you to win a new client, but they also help you to keep that client for a decade.

So a major operating system end of life event gives you a temporary opportunity to blast through these problems for these three big reasons. First of all, it’s rare, it’s once a decade. Second, it introduces an immovable deadline. And third, there are serious consequences for inaction. It’s been known for four years that Windows 10 would expire this October, but it’s only as we get within a few months of that date that the urgency really starts to kick in. So here’s the big marketing opportunity for you between now and October the 14th, and probably actually a good few weeks after.

Alert existing clients and prospects to what’s happening and the deadline, educate them on the consequences of inaction and lay out their options. That’s it. That’s all you have to do. And you can do this by consistently putting out great marketing on this for the next couple of months. Educate enough business owners and managers and you will generate new revenue and not just in hardware upgrades or OS migrations, but in other areas as well.

Why? Because when they need help with something they perceive to be complicated, most people turn to the authority figure who’s educated them, and they go on to ask for extra help outside the original problem. Great, so let that authority figure be you.

Here’s the huge freebie that I was talking about at the beginning. If you want to do some marketing around this, my team at the MSP Marketing Edge has done much of the hard work for you. You can use the free materials I’m going to tell you how to get in a second, you can use them to educate existing clients and prospects about their options.

All you have to do is go to this page and enter your details: growth.mspmarketingedge.com/windows10.

Go there, fill in your details, and I’ll email you some Windows 10 marketing materials you can use. In there, there’s an editable eight page educational guide that’s in Canva, PDF and InDesign. There’s an editable infographic and carousel for LinkedIn. There’s some email sequences for existing clients and prospects. And there’s a video script. Plus I filmed a special video guide showing you how to use these materials.

How to run your MSP by the numbers – and which to track

Featured guests: Brian Hoppe has been part of the Managed Services industry since the early 2000s. For over 20 years, Brian has worked in multiple MSPs and has bought and sold multiple MSPs. He’s been everything from a technician to Ops Manager to CFO to CEO. He has grown multiple MSPs to over $5 million in revenue and managed MSPs in excess of $15 million in revenue. Brian has a thorough understanding of all the ins and outs of running a highly successful MSP. But more importantly, he understands how to help MSP leaders get the most from their business. His expertise in leadership and coaching can help any MSP owner or CEO achieve the results they want in both business and life. He is passionate about finding the right clients for his coaching practice to help take their business and leadership to the next level.

I would say it’s simple for those who understand how it’s to be done. There’s dozens of people out there who can help you set up the integration appropriately and all of those kinds of things. What I will say is that it’s most of the time the knowledge of what to look at and what to look out for. That’s the biggest hamper for profitability for MSPs. There’s data out there. Service leadership for instance, runs benchmarking and all of that kind of stuff. And in any room of a hundred MSPs, you’re going to find that there’s the 25% top performers, there’s those 50% kind of in the middle, and there’s 25% at the bottom. The top performers generate on average, about 2.3 times as much profit as somebody right in the middle. And what’s the difference between those average performers and those high performers? It’s really just the skill and the knowledge of the owner or the management team and their ability to generate those profits. And so actually the good thing is that all of those skills are learnable. I started out not knowing any of those skills 15 years ago and went from there to building a successful business and exiting. So those skills are learnable, which is great. And so it’s all about getting that knowledge of what to look at and why, and how to actually make changes to make your business perform the way you want it to perform.

You can see why running an MSP can sometimes be so frustrating because when you start, you think it’s about support and customer service and being good at tech. And then as you become mature as a business owner, you realise everything you’ve just said there, I know that someone’s going to listen to this on the podcast or watch this on YouTube, and their brain is literally exploding, it’s squirting out their ears right now because what you’ve just said is a missing piece of the jigsaw of, why have we got so much money coming in and yet there’s nothing left? You’ve perhaps just sent someone off down a direction that they wouldn’t have thought of. And we as business owners, and it’s not just MSPs, it’s all business owners, we’ve got to get really good at finance, we’ve got to get really good at marketing, we’ve got to get really good at sales, we’ve got to get really good at all of these other areas that are never about the thing that got into it.  As you say, that’s the difference between being one of the bottom or the middle MSPs and being in that 25% club, which you want to be in. Because the people who are making really good money from their business are the ones who stay business owners longer, they’re healthier, they’re wealthier, they have better lives, they have better relationships, they get divorced less, their kids still talk to them, all of that stuff, because actually there’s a balance, and you can’t be a business owner for 20, 30, 40 years without that kind of balance.

So for the MSP who’s having that epiphany right now, and then he’s going to look at QuickBooks or Xero or whatever they’re using and scratching the head, obviously you can help them, what’s the best way to get in touch with you and scream, Brian, please help me.

I’m on LinkedIn all the time, so Brian Hoppe, you can look me up. We probably have mutual connections if you’re in the MSP industry. And then my website, brianhoppe.com. You can always check me out there and get in touch that way as well.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

We have a marketing acronym question that comes from Daniel, an MSP owner in San Francisco. His question is: What are UTMs and how would I use them?

So a UTM is a snippet of code that you add to the end of a URL, and it helps you to track exactly where your traffic’s coming from in Google Analytics. UTM, it’s got a weird name, stands for Urchin Tracking Module, and it was created by a company called Urchin Software before Google acquired it. You’ll have seen loads of UTMs before. So for example, if you take my URL mspmarketingedge.com, this is what it would look like with a UTM added: https://www.mspmarketingedge.com/?utm_source=googlemybusiness&utm_medium=social-media&utm_campaign=utm-social-media

The idea is that for each campaign you run and each platform you use, you create a unique URL with UTM parameters, and then in Google Analytics you’ll be able to see exactly where the traffic has come from and what conversions each campaign has created. Good news. There are free UTM builders all across the web, just Google for one.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Brian Hoppe, on LinkedIn, and visit his website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post Should your MSP get HubSpot? A review appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 291 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• They want to buy 365 direct – fight it, or accept it?: If a client wants to buy 365 direct, it’s not necessarily a bad thing… it could actually become a massive sales opportunity for your MSP.
• Should your MSP start a podcast?: Lots of MSPs have asked me for advice on setting up a podcast, and yes, having a podcast can be an insanely powerful marketing tool. But should you do one? Let me help you answer that question.
• Ask these questions to pick an MSP marketing agency: Many MSPs hate marketing and they hate agencies even more. My guest is going to tell you the specific questions you should ask a marketing agency to separate the good guys from the bad.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Have you ever considered sending an impact box to prospects? Find out what you should include in yours.

They want to buy 365 direct – fight it, or accept it?

Are these clients for real? They want to switch to buying 365 directly to save a couple of bucks a month. This is a scenario most MSPs face at some point, but should you fight it, try and educate them or let them just do what they want? What if I told you this wasn’t necessarily a bad thing and could actually become a massive sales opportunity for your MSP.

As someone who doesn’t personally have to deal with 365 and all the licenses and NCE and all of that, it does look to me like Microsoft has made it as hard as possible for you. That whole NCE thing is a massive pain, right? And especially if you have a client where you’ve made an annual commitment and then of course they hit you a few months in that they want to buy directly, and that just creates a headache for everybody.

It’s not like 365 is a high margin item for you, but from the client’s point of view, 365 is right there at the core of their experience.

Outlook and Teams and Word and Excel, these are all applications that most businesses use multiple times every single workday. So they want them to work, they want them to be productivity tools, not pains in the backside tools, and I think that’s a basic and perfectly understandable requirement of any business owner or manager today. Don’t you agree? So if someone wants to move the licenses away from you, buy direct and save themselves a couple of dollars per user per month, what should you do?

I’ve asked a few MSPs this question over the last couple of weeks and some of them have said that you should just roll over and you should just take it. So invoice them for any out-of-pocket expenses caused by NCE. Make sure they know how that’s going to affect the direct support that you give them and then let them go off and buy it from elsewhere.

Others have said that you should fight really hard to keep everything under your jurisdiction. Isn’t that the point of a managed service provider that you are looking after all of their technology? And that starts with the very basic help desk functions and goes right up to their technology strategy. Now if you don’t have some level of control over everything in between those two items. help desk and strategy, then surely you’re making your life harder than it needs to be and that must have an impact on the service that you can deliver to them and the service that they’ll enjoy.

So maybe the message you want to send them is telling them all the downsides, all the bad things that could happen, like the fact they’ll have to deal directly with Microsoft if there’s an issue. They’ll have to pick which license is best for them as well. Of course they’ll have to set up their new users, they’ll have to manage their users, deal with all of that headache. And of course it complicates your basic support or it could have an impact on some of the other work that you’re doing for them.

The challenge for you if a client asks this and you want to fight it, is to make them realise how much extra work they’re going to have to do for saving $2 per user per month. So to recap, some MSPs would roll over and say, here you go, other MSPs would fight it to keep it. To me there’s a third option and that’s to use this as an early warning of some potential future change in your relationship with your client. Because let’s be honest, this is just not a sensible decision that would be made by a sensible decision maker. Is it? It’s taking on a lot of extra work to save a tiny amount of money. And that rings an alarm bell for me.

Is your client desperately trying to cut costs? Does your client really not understand what you do for that $2 per user per month? Is your client actually thinking of switching to another MSP or doing something completely different and this is kind of your first notification of a very long process where at the end of it they’re going to leave and go to someone else. My suggestion is that if this happens to you, you don’t use this as an opportunity to go in and say stay or go. Instead, you use it as an opportunity to start a discussion to have an in-depth conversation about their business, where it’s going, what the goals are, what their issues might be, what are they facing at this very moment.

Very rarely are you as the MSP, the cause of some problems in their business, but you can become the victim of other problems that their business has. We’d always want to have a business discussion with someone before they made a major decision about doing something different, wouldn’t we? And this might just be the early warning that you would always want to receive. It’s actually quite cool to get it even if it does cause you a little bit of distress and of course some work. And do you know what, it might even lead to an upsell opportunity. Sometimes people cutting costs is a sign that they’re actually looking to spend more but in a different direction. So there might be some other services that you can sell them or you might be able to come up with a more comprehensive deal that helps them achieve the things that they want to achieve.

Now I would love to know what you think about this and did you know I have a Facebook group that’s all about discussing marketing and business growth and it’s a vendor free zone, only MSPs, no vendors. To join, go onto Facebook, type in MSP marketing in the search bar and then go to groups and you just look for the MSP marketing group. You’ve just got to prove that you’re an MSP by answering a few simple questions and I look forward to discussing this with you in that Facebook group.

Should your MSP start a podcast?

Have you ever heard me on my podcast and thought, that seems easy, I should do that? Lots of MSPs have asked me for advice on setting up a podcast, and yes, having a podcast can be an insanely powerful marketing tool. But should you do one? Let me help you answer that question, and if you do get started, let me tell you about these specific things you need to consider before you get started.

So Paul, should I do a podcast for my MSP? Well, my easy flippant answer to this is probably not, no. Because unless you have a real passion for podcasts and you’ve always itched to do your own, you’ll quickly find that a regular podcast is a total pain. However, the benefits are huge. I found that my podcast has been a key tool to reach people that I’d never have reached any other way.

It’s helped me set myself up as an authority figure. It’s helped me to open doors to influential people by interviewing them and it’s helped me to build a brand new audience. Would you and I be talking right now, either you listening on the podcast or watching me on YouTube, if I wasn’t doing this?

If you do fancy doing a podcast, these are the main 10 areas to consider.

The first is your target audience. Who are you going to do the podcast for? Now this is easy if you operate in a specific vertical, but much harder if you just operate geographically. You have to really ask yourself why would someone choose to listen to your podcast? What’s in it for them?

The second thing that kind of leads on from that is the podcast title. You need a unique title that will catch their attention. It also needs to be something that’s not already being done. And remember, ordinary people, the business owners and managers that you want to reach, they’re not as interested in technology as you are. So having a podcast about technology is probably not going to be interesting to the people you most want to reach, but they are interested in growing their business, increased productivity and just having a smoother, better run business.

Number three is regularity. So weekly gets people into the habit of listening. We’ve been doing it weekly since around about November 2019, but I’ll be honest with you it’s a treadmill, it really is. I work several weeks ahead, so I never miss an episode and that requires a lot of discipline. For example, right now I’m recording this on a Tuesday morning. It’s so sunny and beautiful outside I want to be out in my shorts working in the garden, but instead I’m in my studio and I’m recording the podcast because I need to do it now because my whole team is waiting for me to record that podcast so they can go and do the editing and the promotions and all the stuff they need to do. Discipline is a big thing with a podcast and if you’re going to do it weekly, you’ve got to work ahead and make sure it appears weekly.

Number four is format. So lots of podcasts are just an interview with a guest and that is a kind of an easy way to do a podcast. The downside is if your guest is a bit boring or the listener doesn’t like the guest or their subject, they’ll just skip the whole podcast and that damages the principle of trying to get them to listen to you every single week. So the other way to do it is to have several segments to the show. That’s what we do in our podcast. If you listen, you’ll hear me, I do a talky bit and then I’ll do a tease or something and then I’ll do another talky bit and another tease, and then we have the guest on and then we sort of finish with a listener question and that’s a pretty good format that’s worked well for us for a number of years.

Number five to think about is specific content. So what exactly are you going to talk about? It’s worth having a content calendar to plan this and mine stretches months into the future. So as I’m recording this, we are here on the 29th of April. You know that this is obviously going out in June and we have a plan right up to September, October right now. The quickest way to lose motivation for your podcast is to be scratching around for content ideas. You’ve got to think ahead and make that systematic knowing what you’re going to be recording months in advance.

Which brings us onto number six, recording. You need a quality USB microphone. I use a Shure MV7. It’s quite difficult to say, although don’t get too caught up on the technology. For years, I used a really old Samsung Meteor microphone, it must’ve been like 10, 15 years old, and that was fine enough until we upgraded, did the whole studio out and decided to upgrade the equipment, and that was years into the podcast. Just as you can have the very best golf clubs and be a terrible golfer, you can have the very best microphone and produce awful content if you’ve got nothing to say. Make sure you do record somewhere quiet, you’ll get great audio quality recording in a small cupboard. And I do mean that, a friend of mine does voiceovers for national radio and he does it in his under stairs cupboard with a blanket just to kind of deaden the sound. Now today I do mine in a large open space at home. If you’re watching this on YouTube, you’ll see my studio space and it doesn’t sound too bad because we’ve put acoustic tiles on the ceiling and on some of the walls as well. But if I had to start again and I didn’t have this space, I’d just go in a small cupboard and I’d just use my microphone and just reduce the space because you reduce the amount of boom that you can have if there’s not so much space.

Number seven then is production or jingles, you know when the guy that says on the podcast of Here’s Paul Green’s marketing podcast, something like that, you just get someone on Fiverr or Upwork to make this for you. There’s so many people out there that will do voiceovers. You can source your own or you can just get someone who’s got a good voice you love to do it for you, and then get someone else on Fiverr or Upwork to produce that, to turn that into a little jingle that you can play out. Just don’t let anyone who does this for you try to charge you any kind of ongoing licensing fee because that is nonsense. Pay once and own the work.

Number eight is editing. As with videos, really it’s the editing that makes or breaks a podcast. We have two people that work on our production. We have James, who’s our producer, and Simon who’s also our producer and our editor. And Simon sits and edits this just down to a level of perfection. He takes out all of my ums and uhs, he’ll get rid of my mistakes, he tightens it all up. He does a fantastic job. And when we first started, it was just me and James and we just did a quick edit and got it out there. Now we spend a lot of time, we repurposed a lot of our podcast into YouTube, into other platforms. We cut it into shorts, we cut it into clips for LinkedIn. But all of that is stuff you do down the line. And we use Premiere Pro now because it’s a fantastic tool where you’ve got a flow and you are repurposing content. But again, if I was starting again tomorrow, even if it was just me editing my podcast, I would start with something called Audacity that’s an open source audio editor. It’s a really great piece of software. However, as quickly as I could, I would outsource the editing if I was starting again. So he takes my editor Simon, around about two to three hours a week. He takes my recordings, my ramblings, and he turns them into a well polished product. But please do not underestimate how important the editing is. The talking bits that I do, which takes me around about an hour a week, plus my interview. That’s nothing compared to the time that Simon puts in making it perfect. So if you listen to the podcast or watch the videos and you think this is good, this is professional content, it’s Simon that’s doing all the heavy lifting on this. Thanks Simon.

Then we go onto number nine, which is hosting. So we use something called Castos, which automatically publishes the podcast to all of the major platforms, it’s why we’re on every single major podcast platform. And as a bonus, we can control and publish the podcast through our WordPress website, which is really easy. But that was a choice we made six years ago. And there are lots of hosts around, there are other hosts that are perhaps a bit more up to date. There are some, and I can’t remember its name off the top of my head, but there’s one which can dynamically insert adverts. So it can take all of your old podcast episodes and insert new adverts into your old podcast episodes. So it really is worth you checking out all of the major players and you definitely want to get your podcast transcribed as that becomes valuable content for your website. We don’t use Castos’s own automated transcription, we prefer Rev.com’s human checked transcription, so they do it on AI and then a human checks it. And the reason we do that is because we take that transcript and we use that to build our entire podcast page. So if you go onto mspmarketingedge.com and you have a look at the podcast and you’ll see for about the last 15, 20 weeks or so, which is when we last changed it, we have insanely good pages where the whole transcript is on the page. We pull out key quotes, we have links to things, we have other resources that appear in the page. And that takes Laura who’s on my podcast team, it takes her a couple of hours a week to do, but it’s worth it because we do see some good traffic coming into that.

And then finally number 10, it’s the final item and it’s promotion. Now, this is the biggest question to answer. How will you promote your podcast to the audience that you want to reach? So here’s what we do or a little bit of what we do for ours. I’ve already mentioned a few things, we do like repurposing the content onto different platforms, but I send out a big email to my database every Tuesday. I post it in my Facebook group, that’s my MSP marketing Facebook group that’s only for MSPs. We post it on LinkedIn, actually goes across the week in two or three different ways. And for special episodes, we do sometimes run paid ads as well. One other thing that we do is we ask the guests to promote it to their audiences. So we’ll only do that if they’re guests from within the channel, because that’s a sensible thing to do. But we do also invite on strategic guests. So people that I know are very well connected and will bring a lot of listeners onto the podcast. In fact, the pro tip on that one is go and find all the other podcasts that are big that you want to be on and invite the host of those onto your podcast. So they come onto your podcast, you do an interview with them, and inevitably during that interview, they will say to you, would you like to come on and be a guest on my podcast? So you actually promote your podcast by appearing on other people’s podcasts, and as long as you’re all reaching the same audience, that’s a really great idea.

Ask these questions to pick an MSP marketing agency

Many MSPs hate marketing and they hate agencies even more. But why? Is it because they’ve had their fingers burned, they’ve spent a ton of cash on an agency and felt they never got value for money? Or is it because agencies persist in making marketing seem mysterious when it’s really not? My special guest today is going to tell you exactly why MSPs hate marketing. And if you are hiring a marketing agency, he’s going to tell you the specific questions you should ask to separate the good guys from the bad guys.

Hello, my name is JP De Silva and I am the founder and owner of Create Want.

A marketing agency. And thank you so much for joining me on this podcast, JP, because we are going to talk today, two marketers having a discussion about why people hate marketers, which sounds like a bizarre conversation for us to have, but there is a solid reason for us talking about that. Because we believe that actually it unfortunately makes MSPs hold themselves back because of their dislike of marketing and marketers in general. So we’re going to explore that today and try and make it more comfortable for you as an MSP if you are thinking of hiring a marketing agency or bringing a marketing person on board. We want to sort of help you by knowing what are the right questions to ask, what are the things you should consider and why you shouldn’t hate marketing people. That’s our goal for this anyway.

So tell us a little bit about you. I know those people watching this on YouTube will see that you look like you’re about 18, but you’re telling me that you’ve been in marketing for 25 years already. Tell us about your background.

Yeah, I’m past 40. So yeah, I have been in the industry probably for about 25 years, and it all started when my dad was a computer programmer before internet was a thing. And I was always with computers and marketing related stuff, and I started helping people trying to get their name out. And I found out that a lot of business owners didn’t understand the principles of marketing and how it works and what to expect, and it created a false expectation. So over the years, I started to lean more towards how can I get this person to understand how these work so they can make a more responsible decision when it comes to, oh, I’m going to invest money here or I’m going to do this. And it became a very fun thing just because I’ve heard probably about every question, every complaint people have in the industry, which has helped me to develop things that is going to help them overcome that.

That makes sense. And certainly back in the day, and even today still to a certain extent, people who don’t know much about marketing or technology assume that if you can do computer stuff, you’re good at marketing. We see this with the MSPs. MSPs are sometimes asked by their clients, can you build us a website? To which of course we know that managing someone’s technology and building a website are two completely different skills, but the end users, the end business owners don’t do that. I remember 20, when was this back in 2005, so yeah, 20 years ago, my last proper job before I started my first business, I worked for a newspaper publishing company here in the UK. So 2005, fairly early days on the internet, but I worked in the internet division. And at one point just before I left because things were going stupid, they decided that they should give the responsibility for the internet publishing division to the IT department. And their thinking was, these are our news websites, so the computer people should run them. And of course, it was just a case of no, they’re websites, it’s just the conduit to get the news out to people. I made this argument in a meeting, that would be giving the printing press over to the IT people. They wouldn’t know what to do with it and they wouldn’t know what to do with the websites.

So you must have seen then over the years, things completely change in terms of the rise of digital marketing and all the offline stuff, even though some of it is still valid, it’s just not popular these days and most people don’t do it. What are the big changes have you seen over the last 25 years?

The main thing I feel is it is so much easier to put content out. It is so much easier to put junk out that makes it harder for something like Google or any search engine to try to sift through all of the stuff available to be able to come out with a proper answer. And I tell a lot of people that anything from Facebook, Instagram, paid ads, SEO, I look at it like a highway. There is a highway and there are billboards. And those billboards are your SEO strategies, your Google ads. And the truth is that we’re running out of highway. There is so many people posting, doing this and that it requires a clever creative outside the box intent to come up with, okay, this is how I’m going to target my perfect audience, because it is not like before where you just needed to put your name in the yellow pages and make the best offer and wait for the phone to ring. Now there is a lot more territory to cover, which doesn’t make it necessarily harder, you just have to put a little bit more, oh, okay, I’m going to try this with intent, and it usually works.

Yeah, I agree with you, there’s a lot more junk out there. And of course, the last two years with the rise of AI, we’ve seen a lot more what people are calling AI slop, which is just nonsense that’s out there and I think there’s no long-term future in that AI slop, but where we stand today in 2025, that is surprisingly dominant on a lot of platforms.

Let’s talk about MSPs. So JP you know MSPs, I know you work with a number of MSPs, although you’re not an MSP marketing specialist, you work with lots of businesses and MSPs are amongst your client roster. So you know that they’re primarily technicians first, that they’re driven by helping people, solving problems, great customer service, all of those things MSPs love. And the vast majority hate marketing. And I know that that’s not just managed service providers. You see that from all sorts of business owners. So why do people who are not marketers hate marketing?

The fastest way to answer that is because they don’t understand it. That is the fastest answer. Now, the next layer to that is the fact that they have been screwed over in the past by somebody. Now granted, I believe there is people out there who are not necessarily the most honest, but really everybody’s trying to do their best. And the problem is that if the business owner doesn’t understand what’s going to happen when they implement certain strategies or what to expect or don’t understand the foundation of it, they’re going to listen to what that professional marketing agency/freelancer is saying, and they might be implementing something that is not going to work for them. And it’s not because the marketing agency is intentionally doing that. It’s not because the business owner is intentionally doing that. They just don’t understand how it works. So I give this example, sometimes I say, listen, because I know how to run ads or because I’m an expert on video production, that doesn’t mean it’s the right thing for you.

And I think that’s where the disconnection usually happens. Hey, I need more clients. And they say, oh, well you need to run ads because that’s what the agency knows how to do. Now it might work but it may not be the strategy for them.

I truly believe that the main reason people end up hating marketing is because they don’t understand it.

They say, Hey, I want to do X, Y, and Z, and I need this many leads. And the agency is like, oh, okay, well let’s do blah and then they don’t get the result and then the client is like, oh no, I want to replace my agency. We’ve been gifted to having clients for over 15 years, and it is often we get people like, yeah, we’re not happy with our agency. And believe it or not I always, and this might be sound odd, but I always vouch for the agency and not for the client, simply because I know there is something they did not understand in the process. And if they were to have that information, it would be a lot smoother.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. So you are actually trying to help educate them about the things that perhaps their previous agency didn’t educate them. It’s interesting what you say about the agency falling back on their own capabilities. It’s like if you go to a guy who’s holding a big hammer and you say to him, I’ve got a problem. I need a hole in the wall. He’s going to say, I know how to get a hole in the wall, I’m going to hammer it. If you go up to a different guy who’s got a drill, right, and you say, I need a hole in the wall, then he’s going to drill it. And both of those people believe that their way is the best way. And I think that’s a really good way of for you of describing how marketing agencies come at it. If they’re good at making outbound calls, they see that as the answer. If they’re good at SEO (search engine optimization) they see that as the answer, which is really interesting.

So let’s bring this back to being an MSP owner. So if you are an MSP owner you know you need to do marketing to win new clients, you know you need new clients to increase your profit, you know you need to increase your profit to have a better life, right? That’s an established thing, but you’re stuck on what is the best marketing solution for me? Put yourself in that person’s shoes. And what do you think are some of the right questions to ask or sort of avenues to explore before you pick? Well, I guess there’s two things. There’s what kind of marketing do you do? So do you go down the DIY route, (do it yourself), or do you go down the done for you, or do you find something in between? And then how do you actually pick that right person?

That’s a very interesting question, and there is a few ways we can answer it, but I feel like the one thing people should keep in mind, regardless of the option is, it has to be simple. I’ve worked with some of the biggest brands and some of the smallest businesses, and the simpler the better. Do not make it complicated. It is not complicated. If it has a billion steps and all this different stuff, it is probably not, right? Not to get carried away, but if any business owner were to look at how they started their business, it was them being passionate about what they were doing, giving that information to another person who was also in need of that, that’s the simplicity of it. All we’re trying to do is to recreate that same process, but to thousands of people. That’s it. At any given time, any coffee shop, any MSP, any lawyer started by, okay, it’s just me, I’m a small business, I need to start to drum up some money. How do I do this? And they we’re just doing that.

So if a business owner is in the position of how do I approach this need, number one, have a strategy. Whoever you’re going to work with needs to put together a strategy, something simple that says, Hey, this is your perfect audience, your perfect type of client. This is what they need and this is what we can say to them so they understand we can offer that. What is going to be the medium we are going to use to deliver that message. And they should be able to walk you through sort of like, this is what’s going to happen and it’s going to lead to this and it’s going to lead to this, and this is what you’re going to have at the end. So not sure if I fully answer your question, but that is what I would recommend to an MSP owner or a business owner who’s like, how do I pick my next marketing agency because I’m frustrated with the current one? Well make sure that they have a plan and that they are able to explain to you what’s being done and why.

Yeah, I think that’s great advice. And of course as an MSP owner, you’re dealing with very technical and very difficult, complicated things in your work. And so it’s easy to assume that your marketing should also be difficult and technical and multi-step. And I completely agree, the simpler you can make it, the easier you can make it, well, the more likely it is to happen for a start. Simpler, easier marketing that happens is always better than complex smart marketing that doesn’t happen because there’s just too many steps in it. So that’s really good advice.

Final question for you, JP, is if you could have every MSP owner that you speak to know one thing, apart from the stuff that you’ve just said, what would that one thing be? Or if there’s no one thing, what would be the one question you would want them to ask of you?

So one is they need to track everything. They need a system or something that allows them to see the progress of what’s being done. So if they’re writing content for SEO, they need to see is the traffic increasing? If they’re doing social media, do we get more exposure through social media? Are we doing email campaigns? Are people just track, look at it just like a diet and people track their weight and their measurements and stuff. Just measure things out to make sure that what you are doing it is working or is not working so you can make adjustments. Please, please have a strategy. A strategy is your GPS. It is going to take you from point A to point B. Can you make it without a strategy? Yes. But if you have a strategy is going to be the easiest way to figure out if you’re doing the right thing or if it’s going to work out.

And it takes time and money. A lot of people have the misconception that is going to be, I’m not saying it has to be expensive, but I feel people need to understand it is going to take work. It is going to cost certain amount of money. I know people always try to get, how can I get the cheapest option or whatever, which is fine, they should, but they need to understand that they’re going to get the result they’re paying for to some extent. So they need to be conscious of that and think with that a little bit.

Yeah, I agree. And selling a managed services contract, perhaps one of the longest, most complex sales B2B sales that there is, apart from the multimillion pound sales that are being made to enterprise companies and governments, those are probably longer and more complex. But in terms of small business transactions, absolutely it takes time, time, time. The flip side of that, of course is you keep the client for 10 years, which is unheard of in other B2B sales. JP, thank you for your time today. Briefly tell us what does your business do, how do you help MSPs and how can we get in touch with you?

Sure. The name of my company is Create Want. And that’s what we do, we create want for people’s products and services. We believe that marketing has gone the wrong way by pushing people into buy now or you will lose an arm or get it this and all that. And we figure out that everything you’ve bought, you bought it because you want it. So I was like, well, why are we trying to push things into people? Why we don’t just create want, why we don’t just make it so people want it. And there is many different ways, videos, SEO, emails, etc. So we try to figure out, okay, what is going to work for this particular person? And a lot of our clients are actually agencies, marketing agencies, marketing directors, business owners, and we find a lot of joy doing that because it’s not just meh marketing it’s, Hey, how can we actually create want for your services?

And what’s the best way for us to get in touch with you?

JP@createwant.com, that’s the easiest way. That’s my direct email and I love answering questions. I could spend my entire day just helping people answer question. It is the thing that I’m most passionate about. I don’t charge anything for it. I just want to help people accomplish their goals.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Gideon runs an MSP in Texas and he really wants to make an impact with his prospects by sending them physical stuff in the mail. So his question is: What should I put in an impact box?

An impact box, also known sometimes as a “shock and awe box”, is a box of stuff that you send to a prospect in order to make an impact. And the idea is to really punch through and show them that you mean business. Now you don’t have to spend a fortune on your box. The contents could include something as simple as a handwritten short intro note. And yes, it should be handwritten so it stands out and has value. And you just need to say something like, Hi Dave, I know that picking a new IT support company is a big decision. We’d love to partner with you. Here’s a copy of my IT services buyer’s guide and some case studies plus some snacks to enjoy while you are reading them. If you’ve got any questions about joining us, please give me a call on this number.

You’d also put in there your proposal or maybe your confirmation of a meeting or a follow-up meeting depending where in the sales process you send them this impact box. I mentioned earlier that thing called an IT services buyer’s guide. Well, this is a guide that tells them how to switch from one MSP to another. We actually give one of these to our MSP Marketing Edge members and we update it every year. It’s a very, very powerful tool because the only people who would read something like that are those people who are almost ready to switch from one MSP to another. So it’s a great way for you to stamp your authority as the person who wrote the book on how to pick a new MSP. Can you see the power of that? That definitely goes in your impact box.

You’d also add in a selection of case studies, and I know that that would be a second piece of printed material. You’ve got your IT services buyer’s guide, and then your case studies. But each of these things play a different part. In fact, one idea to move away from just being printed stuff is to actually put video case studies onto a USB. But then you’ve got the thing of your prospects plugging a USB from a stranger into their laptop. And we all know that they would do that, but you don’t necessarily want to encourage them to do that.

Next thing that goes in your impact box is some edible stuff. So chocolates, biscuits, sweets, candy, whatever. I mean, what you can do is if you could find out the favourite chocolate bar of the person you’re sending it to, that would be so powerful. Imagine if their favourite chocolate bar was a Snickers and you put five Snickers bars in that impact box. I mean, that just shows a level of care and attention to detail that’s so high.

And it’s actually quite easy to find out. You just ring up their business, speak to the receptionist and say, Hey, I’m sending a box of stuff to this person. Just out of interest, what’s their favourite candy bar? What’s their favourite chocolate bar? And then you just go out and you get a few of those. If you didn’t want to do candy chocolates or sweets, you could just do perhaps a few cans of Coke or Pepsi or tea bags or sachets of coffee, something like that.

And then finally, you should do a piece of merch – merchandise. I’m down with the kids. I can say merch. It could be a mouse mat. Do people still use mouse mats? I see MSPs using them but I’m not convinced that normal people do, but it could be a mouse mat, a pen or a mug or something like that. It doesn’t really matter just find some merch that you like and get some made for your impact box.

Then make sure the box looks really nice inside and outside. So inside you can use sheets of gently crumpled tissue paper to achieve that. And then the outside, you could get your box printed in your MSP’s brand colours. Well, the simpler thing is just to buy some boxes off Amazon or wherever and then get some stickers printed with your logo and perhaps saying what it is. The perfect way is to get it printed to your brand, but sometimes the perfect way just slows everything down. Whereas you could get an impact box put together in the next two days if you just did it, and then you refined it down the line.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Jean Paul De Silva on LinkedIn, and visit the Create Want website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

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This is my mega guide to getting a GREAT video testimonial for your MSP. See how to get it done for you, and the 10 steps to DIY

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Collecting lots of social proof is ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT THINGS you can do to persuade someone to pick your MSP.

Social proof - in the form of reviews, testimonials and case studies - influences people at a very deep psychological level.

In fact, it talks to us at 'Caveman Level', right at the core of what drives our behaviour.

Let me explain.

100,000 years ago we were not at the top of the food chain. There were big scary monsters with huge jaws and jagged teeth that could (and did) eat us.

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I know dinosaurs and humans never existed together, but go with it...

And so the cavemen and women who survived to breed were the ones who were better than the others at not being eaten. We know this today as survival of the fittest, and how it drives evolution.

One of the most powerful tools to avoid being eaten is to watch what everyone else is doing - and do the same.

It's a kind of herd mentality you still see today in animals at the bottom of the food chain. If one sheep runs, the others in the flock do the same.

Importantly, they don't think about this. They feel very strongly compelled to act. It feels safer that way.

That's what cavemen did back then. And 4,000 generations later, it's what decision makers still do today.

Understand this: Most people, most of the time, prefer to do what most other people are doing.

And that in a single sentence explains why social proof is so powerful.

• When we see other people...
• And we perceive they're like us...
• And they clearly trust a business...
• It feels safer to do the same.

(side note - if you're one of the tiny minority who proudly claims "social proof has zero influence on me", then look out for sabre-toothed tigers. They're watching you closely, licking their lips).

The most powerful form of social proof is a video testimonial. You get a happy client, on camera, telling your prospects why they trust your MSP.

You want that?

Yes? Good.

I'll be honest, there's a fair amount of work to get it. You can throw money at the problem to outsource it (a suggestion, not a recommendation).

Or use a platform that prompts your clients, which is risky for an MSP in my opinion as it's easy for them to ignore (and you only have dozens of clients to ask, not thousands).

Or you can follow my step by step instructions and DIY.

I've pulled the following 10 steps together this week while personally interviewing 16 of my MSP Marketing Edge members about their experience with us. It's been such fun - and we're compiling a series of testimonial videos to go on our website.

Here's a sneak peak:

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And here's how to get your own video made.

STEP ONE: Be clear what you want to achieve

The perfect video testimonial:

1. Is about 30 to 60 seconds long
2. Tells a story about how someone went from A to B with your help
3. Makes the viewer feels happy they could achieve the same result (working with you)

Never forget that someone hires your MSP because they want a specific outcome - ease of growth, extra profit, increased productivity, less staff moaning, etc. That's the transformation story you want to tell.

The format for your testimonial should be:

• Set context (“this is a problem many business owners face”)
• Demonstrate relevance (“1 in 4 small business owners will have this IT problem”)
• Lay out the problem
• Poke the pain
• Present the answer (the answer is always something only an IT professional can do)
• Show a happy outcome

STEP TWO: Decide who to ask

Ask your happy clients. Just be 100% sure they ARE happy with the service before you ask. Nothing aggravates an unhappy client more than a mistimed testimonial request.

Assume about 1 in 5 will say yes. In the next step we'll make it easy for them to say no without feeling awkward.

By the way, if your personal idea of hell is appearing in someone's video, don't assume everyone feels that way. Some people (like me) love being in videos and are excited to be asked. Being filmed can be showbiz to some.

STEP THREE: Phone them or send an email

You know your clients best. Some respond best to a chat on the phone. Others prefer information in a written form that they can digest before acting.

Here's an email you can swipe and use.

Subject line: Can I ask a favour please

Body: Hi NAME. Can I ask a favour please.

We’re always looking for more clients like you. I’m going to launch a new marketing campaign soon.

And at the heart of it, I’d like my favourite existing clients to tell my future clients why they should join us.

How would you feel about telling us how well we’ve looked after you?

Interested? Here's my live calendar: LINK

STEP FOUR: Choose a video platform

Please do NOT do these interviews on Teams or Zoom. They prioritise the live call at the expense of the recording. You want a platform that works the other way round.

Personally I use Squadcast for these kinds of interviews, as well as my podcast interviews. An alternative is Riverside. Both of these record the video in quality on each person's computer and automatically upload it to the cloud.

I highly recommend you record the video twice. So while using a platform, you might remote in to run a screen recorder on your client's computer (with their permission, of course). That way, if the cloud recording fails you can retrieve the backup.

Trust me, your client's patience will not extend to doing the same interview twice.

STEP FIVE: Use this format to make your client feel great

You know the purpose of the interview is to get the video testimonial. But it's also a great chance to strengthen your bond with your client.

Follow this format: Banter -> interview -> banter.

The banter either side of the interview is REALLY important. Your client will probably come onto the call with something they want to talk about. Give that time so they can see you prioritise their needs and wants.

Remember that the interview itself is unusual and exciting for them. If they ask lots of questions about it, share with them how you've done it (feel free to steal my advice here and pass it off as your own ).

STEP SIX: Ask these questions

The key to any good interview is to ask OPEN questions and not CLOSED ones.

Closed questions have a finite number of answers and produce boring yes/no answers: "Did you have breakfast this morning?"

Open questions have an infinite number of answers and produce exciting answers: "What was the best thing about your breakfast this morning?"

Here are some questions to get you started. Don't be a slave to them - use them as guidance to help get the story out of your client. But make sure to listen to their answers and ask relevant follow-up questions.

Some of these use the technique of asking multiple questions in one go. That might seem weird. But it actually sets boundaries of what you want your client to talk about. You're guiding them to give relevant answers.

You're also asking questions in a way that encourages them to give self contained answers - answers that make sense without hearing the question. Those make editing the video REALLY easy.

My final piece of guidance on questioning is to use silence as a tool. When your client has finished their answer, stay silent for a few seconds. Some people fill the silence by continuing to talk... and often their second answer is better than their first.

• Give us the 30 second story about your business. What do you do, how long have you been going, what kind of clients do you work with?
• How important is technology to your business? If your technology didn't work properly, what chaos would that cause?
• Before you started working with us, what kind of problems did you have with your technology? How did those problems affect you?
• And now those problems have been removed by us. What kind of difference has that made to you and your staff?
• What was your biggest fear when considering using us? Did it come true? And if not, what happened instead?
• What's your favourite part of your experience with our service? And tell us why.
• If your best friend owned a business and was looking for a new technology partner, and you were to recommend us, what would you say?

STEP SEVEN: Find an editor

Good news - once you've got good footage, you've done the hard bit. Now it's onto the editing, where the magic happens.

You'll be tempted to edit this yourself to save a little money. Please rethink that, as a) it's another job you'll not get round to doing for weeks, and b) someone who edits for a living is going to do a better job than you.

Look back at that video I shared up above. Watch it again. And look closely at the editing.

My editor James (who works with me full-time) has expertly reduced the length of the answers without changing the meaning of what was said. And has given the whole thing energy and flow.

Good editing is not about the technical aspects of cutting and splicing. It's about the art of telling a story.

There are thousands of editors out there. You're looking for one who understands and has edited testimonials before.

Look on Upwork and Fiverr. Make sure to hire someone with testimonials in their showreel. You can make their life (and your life) easy by sending them an example of what you'd like your finished video to look like. An hour spent Googling and watching other business's testimonial videos will save hours in the long run.

PS a smart way to find a great editor is to give the same editing gig to 3 different people. This way, you can compare one video to another to see which you prefer.

STEP EIGHT: What videos to output and where to put them

In an ideal world you'd have at least 3x individual client testimonials, which you can turn into four videos.

The first is a mashup of all 3 interviews. It's like a 60 second summary of how a number of clients feel about your MSP. Again, don't forget to tell a story. Your editor will know how to do that by pulling out clips that take the viewer on a journey.

This video goes on your home page, as high up as you can. The higher up something is on a page, the more likely someone is to see it. This video will influence prospects more than anything else on that page.

Then the three individual case studies go lower down that page, like this:

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You'd also take those videos and put them on other important pages, especially your about us page, pricing page, and contact page.

If you have other written testimonials, reviews and case studies, consider gathering them all together into a new page called What clients say.

No-one is going to sit and read all of your social proof. But gathering 20, 30, 40 things together in one place sends a very powerful message to prospects.

STEP NINE: Maxxing your testimonial videos

Once you have those videos, you can make them work hard for you for years to come. Some ideas:

• Share them on LinkedIn. Pull out new clips from the raw footage to create new content to share. You can easily use each clip every 2-3 months (because content on LinkedIn is disposable)
• Send your testimonials page to prospects before a meeting. In his original book They Ask You Answer, author Marcus Sheridan suggests you don't take any sales meeting unless the prospect has watched your social proof video first
• Start a YouTube channel. Pin the testimonial video to the top to be a channel trailer. My MSP Marketing Edge members get 5 videos a month from us that they can add to their channel, alongside their testimonial videos
• Repurpose your testimonials into written case studies. These can be given to prospects as part of a proposal
• These written case studies can go across all marketing assets you have. And you can use a screenshot of the client from the video as an image to accompany it

STEP TEN: Shelf life

You got this far? HIGH FIVE! You now have a powerful marketing asset that most other MSPs will never get round to creating.

That gives you a distinctive advantage over your competitors, right?

Make sure you keep the original footage in a very safe place. 18 months from now, you could get a different editor to create new versions for you. Or you could use clips from old testimonials in new mashup videos.

In theory you can use these testimonials for years and years. But I would assume a shelf life of about 3 years. That would be a good time to go back to some new clients and repeat this process again.

In fact, if you have the resources then, you could even send in a local videographer to film your client in person. That would be a huge step up in quality.

The post Step by step instructions to get a video testimonial for your MSP appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 285 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• To grow your MSP, scrap these pointless tasks: One of the curses of the MSP owner is the never-ending list of things that you need to do. Use the 80/20 rule to identify the things that make the biggest difference to the growth of your business.
• Don’t be scared to present that cyber security webinar: Speaking at a seminar or a webinar can be an incredibly powerful way to attract prospects, warm them up and persuade them that your business is the one they can trust.
• Why so many MSPs fail at LinkedIn ads: LinkedIn is an insane lead generation and prospecting tool for MSPs, but which things should you do? I’ve hunted down one of only 90 certified LinkedIn experts in the world to find out.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: There is a word that you must never, ever use when you’re talking to prospects or clients. It’s a word that must be banished because using it can damage your chances of a sale or your retention. Can you guess what it is?

To grow your MSP, scrap these pointless tasks

Growing an MSP can sometimes feel like a game of poker, can’t it? If each and everything you could do to grow your business was a different card in your pack, choosing which cards to play can be overwhelming. And doesn’t it seem like the hand you’re dealt, everything that’s on your to-do list, just keeps getting bigger and bigger and bigger. So how do you decide which cards to play with and which to leave? How do you make sure you can quickly identify the things your MSP can do to become a real winner?

The biggest problem with being an MSP is having a massive to-do list. Just shout back to me now as you are listening to this or watching it on YouTube. How many things do you have to do today or tomorrow? I’m guessing it’s like 20, 30, 40 things. Because that’s one of the curses of the MSP owner is there is a never ending list of things that you need to do just to look after your clients, never mind actually growing your business. And the net effect of that is that you can get to the end of another day and another, and another and another, and you’ve done the work that your business needs to do, but you haven’t grown the business at all. This is a common problem for MSPs and frankly, it’s a massive problem.

The goal is to make a little progress every single day, and it feels frustrating when you don’t, doesn’t it?

This is why I think sometimes you need to take an 80/20 approach to your list of things that you could do, and I’m sure you’ve heard of 80/20 before. It’s also known as the Pareto principle named after Vilfredo Pareto. He was an Italian economist in the 19th century, and he was busy harvesting peas in his garden when he made an interesting observation. He noticed that some pea pods had a lot more peas in them than others did. So he counted the number of peas in each pea pod. He clearly didn’t have a lot to do that day, but he found that 80% of the peas came from only 20% of the pea pods. And what was really interesting was he then later noticed the same pattern in how wealth was distributed in Italy in his home country. He found that 20% of the people in Italy owned 80% of the land, and these 20% were very wealthy. The remaining 80% of the population owned only 20% of the land.

Now, don’t get too caught up on the 80 and the 20, the actual numbers themselves, just take from this the big principle that input and output in anything rarely match. For example, if you were to look at all of your clients, I bet the vast majority of ticket noise comes from the minority of clients. Many MSPs find that most of their hassle comes from a small number of their clients.And side note, these are the clients that you should fire, but let’s have that conversation another time. In fact, you can apply that to your staff as well. 80% of your hassle will come from 20% of your staff, right? If you apply the 80/20 principle to your task list, you can assume that 20% of the work that you do as the business owner is giving you 80% of the results in growing your business. The trick is to spend 80% of your personal time on those 20% tasks. Now I have way too many things that I want to be doing at the same time, but I learned a long time ago to be utterly brutal in prioritising them. We have an MSP Marketing Edge company development roadmap, and from that, I pull out the 10 things that will make the biggest difference when completed. And I call this my 80/20 list.

So every day, just like you, I have to battle noise and complications to spend more of my time on those things, my 80/20 things and kind of ignore all the other things that are vying for my attention. And I’ll be honest, it’s not easy, it is a daily struggle every day, but it’s really worthwhile. My best evenings are where I’ve spent the day focusing on tasks that will grow my business and not just run my business. So how can you do this in your MSP? Well, I believe it starts with being very, very organised about what it is that you want to achieve. Do you have a long list of things that will help you to win your clients, retain them, and upsell them more services? Can you split that list down into a series of tasks, even if that means that there are dozens and dozens of tasks to be done? And can you then prioritise that list? So if let’s say tomorrow you had 60, maybe 90 minutes to work on growing your business, you would know exactly what you needed to do.

That I think is at the heart of making progress in growing your business. Once you are very clear on what you need to do, in what order, and you can find time every day to work on those tasks, you get the important things done. And does that mean that you have to dump some tasks and they never get done? Yes, a hundred percent it does. And is that scary? Yes, it is a hundred percent, but the reality is that you are never going to get all of those tasks done anyway. You only have 24 hours in the day the same as everyone else, and you need to spend at least six of those sleeping, ideally, seven, maybe eight.

But in terms of getting things done, it’s better you focus on getting done the things that move the business forward rather than the small things that don’t move the business forward. So let me ask you a big question. Something you should just pop in your brain, perhaps sleep on it, reflect on it in the days ahead. What is the noise and complication in your MSP that stops you from focusing on the tasks that make the biggest difference? We all know it’s important to service the clients, well, that’s absolutely critical, but it’s also really important that you grow your business at the same time. If your business isn’t growing, then it’s going the opposite way. And actually that’s a very dangerous place to be. What are the things that are stopping you from doing this and how can you remove them?

That I think is at the heart of making progress in growing your business. Once you are very clear on what you need to do, in what order, and you can find time every day to work on those tasks, you get the important things done. And does that mean that you have to dump some tasks and they never get done? Yes, 100% it does. And is that scary? Yes, it is 100%, but the reality is that you are never going to get all of those tasks done anyway. You only have 24 hours in the day the same as everyone else, and you need to spend at least six of those sleeping, ideally, seven, maybe eight.

But in terms of getting things done, it’s better you focus on getting done the things that move the business forward rather than the small things that don’t move the business forward. So let me ask you a big question. Something you should just pop in your brain, perhaps sleep on it, reflect on it in the days ahead. What is the noise and complication in your MSP that stops you from focusing on the tasks that make the biggest difference? We all know it’s important to service the clients, well, that’s absolutely critical, but it’s also really important that you grow your business at the same time. If your business isn’t growing, then it’s going the opposite way. And actually that’s a very dangerous place to be. What are the things that are stopping you from doing this and how can you remove them?

Don’t be scared to present that cyber security webinar

Up to three quarters of MSPs would rather lose a toe than have to speak in public. But did you know that speaking at a seminar or a webinar can be an incredibly powerful way to attract prospects, warm them up and persuade them that your business is the one they can trust? So using a cybersecurity webinar as an example, how can you be relaxed, confident, and even enjoy presenting? Oh, and keep all of your toes intact?

One of the MSPs I work closely with has made the smart decision to aggressively pursue a vertical, in their case, lawyers. They’ve changed their website and their social media to be more relevant to the owners of law practices in their city. They’ve built up a database, they’re sending emails, LinkedIn messages, and direct mail, and they have someone making follow up phone calls. All of this is great that all the correct things to get the right message in front of the right person at the right time, as people only buy when they are ready to buy.

Recently, I suggested they start to put on regular webinars about cybersecurity for lawyers, and that’s when we hit a wall. The owner, who would have to present these webinars, is pretty reluctant to do them. Why? Because of one word – fear. Or put another way – what if – as in, What if no one turns up? What if they’re bored by my content? What if they ask a question that I can’t answer? What if I make a mistake and every lawyer in my city laughs at me forever? etc.

Now the reality is here that none of these things will happen. And if they did happen, no one will remember, no one will really care, it’s just a webinar. But I do understand where my client’s mental block is coming from.

Fear is a horrible emotion and it can push otherwise highly competent people into inaction.

Reality check here. The reality is if you’ve been an MSP for three years or more, you know more about cybersecurity than any ordinary person, like a lawyer or a business owner, meaning there’s almost no question they could ask you that you couldn’t handle. And they will turn up and they will be engaged so long as the content seems relevant to them. And really the only way to get better at presenting is to do more presenting, do more webinars.

So I believe you should just do the cybersecurity webinar because, big picture, it’s an insanely cool and powerful way to show that you are THE local technology expert while engaging with hot prospects. My final thoughts on this, never forget that fear is an acronym standing for Fictional Events Appearing Real.

Why so many MSPs fail at LinkedIn ads

LinkedIn is an insane lead generation and prospecting tool for MSPs, and yet I know many people who really don’t know where to start with it. There’s a lot of noise out there and lots of things you can do, but which things should you do? I’ve hunted down one of only 90 certified LinkedIn experts in the world. In the next few minutes, he’s going to tell you how to use LinkedIn ads, how to achieve more with less work, and how to leverage advanced strategies to get better results.

Hi, I’m Josh Stout. I am one of less than 90 LinkedIn certified marketing experts in the world. I helped grow an agency from the ground up and I’ve overseen a thousand different ad accounts in my time on LinkedIn.

And thanks so much for joining us on the show, Josh, because we are going to talk about LinkedIn ads today and it’s possibly one of the hardest aspects of LinkedIn to get right. I’m going to be honest with you here, I’ve been doing full-time marketing, getting on for 20 years, I’ve never really cracked LinkedIn ads, I’ve worked with dozens of MSPs who’ve tried LinkedIn ads and we’ve never really cracked it. And my definition of cracked it is, we’ve got something that’s generated leads that has turned into prospects, that have turned into clients that have turned into revenue and profit. And I know it can be done, but I’ve always struggled with that and that’s why we’ve got you on the show to try and answer that question. Let’s just delve a little bit into your credibility and your background. So you said you were one of 90 LinkedIn certified marketing experts?

Yeah, so last year I was selected as part of the class. They flew me out to London, I went to their headquarters there where I received my official certification. We had to go through a series of workshops, but it’s also quite rigorous to get in. You have to submit an application, you have to record a video of yourself saying why you should be in, you need to find three references, and then you have to do an interview where they put you on the spot and you have to do a presentation.

Oh, that’s really cool. There only being 90 of you in the world. Do you all kind of have to agree not to fly on the same plane or something like that in the same way that there’s only about 10 people who know the recipe for Coca-Cola and they’re not allowed to go on the same plane. Is it a similar thing to that or maybe I’m just making it up.

It’s so diverse, people are coming in from all over the place, so no, it’s not really like that. That’s probably why they don’t get us all to go to the same events at the same time though, maybe they want to make sure that they keep us safe, right?

Yeah, maybe it is that. So before we go on to talk about LinkedIn ads, let’s just talk about LinkedIn in general. So I was looking at some stats the other day, and I forget the numbers, but essentially if you were to look at a chart from let’s say about 2015/2016, up until today, so over about eight or nine years, it was just solid growth for LinkedIn, solid growth in user numbers, in engagement, in the amount of content that’s been posted. It’s like LinkedIn is the one social network that has just really solidly grown and grown and grown. Facebook went much higher, but has drip dipped down. Instagram obviously has done a similar kind of thing. We don’t talk about X these days, but there’s all these other social platforms that have their ups and downs, and yet LinkedIn seems to have just been a very solid growth over a number of years. Is that what you see? You are obviously more on the inside of LinkedIn than the rest of us. Is that what you see from the inside as well?

Yeah, absolutely. And I would say the biggest pop of new members and engagement that happened on LinkedIn was during Covid. Because LinkedIn was gradually growing, except I think a lot of people saw it as a job site. You are looking for a job looking to get a higher promotion at another company, something like that. Everyone used LinkedIn. But when Covid hit and everybody had to go home and you couldn’t go to conferences and you couldn’t go to meetings and you couldn’t go door knocking anymore, people had to figure out a way to continue networking their business. And I feel that LinkedIn was just waiting for everybody. They’re like, come my children, we’ve been a business networking platform this whole time, we have these capabilities for you. And immediately LinkedIn started seeing, I mean, initially it was a huge growth, but then a steady 20% growth year over year to where they have over a billion active users now, hundreds of millions of decision makers. So it solidified itself as the professional platform to be on and really elevated itself over just being some type of job recruitment platform.

Yeah, I completely agree with that. And a lot of the MSPs that I speak to when we talk about LinkedIn, because a massive fan, I think it’s a great place for people with small amounts of marketing time to go do marketing. It’s like everyone you could ever do business with is there. A lot of the MSPs I say that to, they say, oh, well, if there’s so many people there, if there are so many other MSPs there, surely we are just part of the noise, or surely people are just going on to sell and no one’s going on to buy. What kind of stuff do you see in terms of how people are using LinkedIn? Are they just going to sell, or actually, are they using it just as a communication tool?

Yeah. Well, first of all, I want to say it is very active on LinkedIn for MSPs. During my time at my previous agency where I helped grow over a thousand head accounts that I saw on LinkedIn, the second largest vertical was MSPs. So obviously the audience is active on LinkedIn and MSPs can reach out to them, but it is very competitive. So in 90 to 95% of the accounts that I’ve audited, and that’s a realistic number, 90 to 95% of the accounts, there are just nuances in the settings and configurations that people don’t know that tend to lead to wasted budget or strategies that are going to be ineffective. Because it is a communication platform, but what makes it so powerful is the ability to specifically target decision makers on LinkedIn, having the most up-to-date professional data out of any other platform in the world, and then the mindset of the user. When people are on LinkedIn, they’re considering their business, they’re considering their roles, their jobs, professions, so being able to get your message in front of them is going to be most effective. And I’ve pretty consistently heard it from LinkedIn called the “middle of funnel hero” because people want to consume content on it. So it’s all about how you’re structuring your strategy, how you’re appealing to the people that you want to show your message to, and ultimately how you’re converting them.

Yeah, I mean, that fits perfectly with the three-step marketing strategy that we recommend. In fact, it’s part of our MSP marketing Edge service. So the first step is to build audiences, and LinkedIn is the first audience I always suggest you build. The second step is to grow relationships, which from what you’ve just said there, the middle of the funnel hero, and that’s done through content. You put content in front of people until the day they’re ready to have a conversation about switching, which is of course the third step. And that is to convert relationships, that’s what you have to come offline, you have to pick up the phone, you have to talk to people, and obviously go and meet with them.

Let’s look Josh specifically at LinkedIn ads because I know that is your particular specialty. So as we know MSPs, it’s a B2B advertising proposition. We’re trying to reach decision makers, other business owners, and a lot of us see ads on LinkedIn that we just scroll past really quickly. And certainly if you’re an MSP, MSPs see the same ads as I see, we see all the big vendors, all the big names, I mean they must be spending thousands of dollars a day on these adverts, and we all just kind of seem to skip over them. Is that the biggest problem with LinkedIn ads or is it, as you say, it’s not understanding the nuances of it and the little settings and things you can adjust?

Yeah, there’s definitely a lot of noise on the platform. Creative is one of the essential components of having a successful campaign on LinkedIn, because you need to know how to put designs in front of people that are going to stop them from scrolling and get them to read your message. That’s really important aspect of advertising on LinkedIn. But I wouldn’t say that that’s the most critical downfall of using the platform is the noise and all the competition. I would say typically it’s the structure. It’s the way that people are setting up their campaigns and they’re lacking that nurturing component. Or what I see all the time is people trying to activate leads on top of the funnel. They’re using lead gen forum using book a call, call to actions already, and they’re trying to target cold audiences to do that. That by far is the largest error on LinkedIn.

When you’re able to really figure out tests and optimise based on what you’re serving your audience, what’s driving the volume, continue reiterating those practices to figure out what’s resonating with them. And then like you said, build out that middle of funnel effort to nurture and educate and ultimately convert. I mean, MSPs have a long sales cycle, so if you’re not staying in front of the people that you know are relevant and the people that are going to make the decision on conversion, then you’re losing out and you’re spending a lot of money that’s not going to be effective for you. And that’s tended to be the biggest area of opportunity.

Okay, that makes sense. So bearing in mind the fact that, as you say, it’s a long sales cycle and we know it can take 6, 12, 18, 24 months from the point someone says hello to you to the point they actually sign a contract, what would you focus an MSP’s LinkedIn ads on? Would you focus it on trying to get people into their CRM? Would you focus them trying to sign up for their LinkedIn newsletter? Would it be something else? What would you go for?

It would be a mixture of those tactics. One thing that I’d probably say way more than I should, is use variation. And one of the biggest attributes of being able to advertise on LinkedIn is content. So absolutely, I would be running news that are focused, ads that are focused on newsletter. I would be using blogs, I would be using white papers, I would be using content. And more than anything, if you want to stay ahead of the curve right now and you really want to capitalise on the best assets that LinkedIn has, have people or experts at your company be posting about their expertise. Don’t do it for likes, don’t do it for engagement. Just post your expertise. Because we can include that in an ad campaign and we can run thought leader alongside your company. Every company is going to say that they’re the best at what they do. So a lot of people are going to hear that, and you need to say that, and you need to show the content that proves that. But if you can also elevate the voices of the company explaining why they’re experts at what they do, people trust people, and that builds brand equity. So using a combination of those in your funnel and in your strategy is going to yield much higher results, and you need to stay in front of these people long-term. So it’s not just using that content, not just using the newsletter, yes, use all those things, but it’s also realising that you need to stay in front of these people so you’re top of mind when they’re ready to convert. And that’s a big missed opportunity I typically see.

Yeah, so essentially you’re saying stamp your authority and keep stamping your authority until the day that they’re ready to have that conversation. And of course, on that day, if they’ve seen 15, 20, 30 things from you on LinkedIn, even if they’re not top of mind, they’re lurking there in the background. And if you then add that into they’ve opened some of your emails that maybe you’ve had some direct messages on LinkedIn, maybe you’ve even spoken to them on the phone or you’ve sent them a letter or a postcard in the mail, all of these things come together and with the LinkedIn ads and the LinkedIn content, and they all help you seem like you’re everywhere. So for the person who’s ready to buy or ready to think about buying or switching, there’s certainly the first conversation you want to have is the person who seems to be everywhere. I love that.

Final question for you, Josh, and that’s about kind of ad spend. So what we’ve just been talking about there is potentially running ads, constantly running ads to people that aren’t going to buy until 2026, 2027, 2028, and there’s a lot of cash going into that. What’s the right mindset do you believe for an MSP who’s looking at ads? Should they be looking at spending a little bit of money on a regular basis, or should they do a big splurge and a big campaign and then pull back and then repeat it? What do you think is the best strategy?

A general rule of thumb in marketing is you should spend about 7-15% of your annual revenue on your marketing efforts. It’s an investment, not an expense. And I don’t say that in a way to say like, take 10% of your annual revenue and dump that all on LinkedIn. From something that you just said, marketing works best in an ecosystem. It really builds your brand to make sure you have those elements of demand generation, demand capture, direct touches, all those things influence conversions. Now on LinkedIn specifically, you can run a pretty healthy budget, maybe somewhere around $5,000 to $10,000 a month on LinkedIn, and that’s going to help you drive a lot of volume and build a lot of frequency. Now, you don’t have to spend that much. I’ve managed campaigns all the way down to $500 a month. You can still put a fundamental structure in place to engage your top of funnel audience and build trust and credibility in your brand.

That long-term play on LinkedIn, you can segment your audience, people that maybe have not visited your website or company page in the last three months, so it’s been over three months now. You can use low cost ad types such as text ads or follower ads, dynamic ads to put really low cost touches to stay in the subconscious of your interested prospects. So yes, obviously the more budget you put behind it, the more volume you can drive, the more low hanging fruit you’re going to find, and the more frequency you can build. But you don’t have to have an enterprise budget to still run a campaign on LinkedIn and make it effective for you.

Which is music to everyone ears, I think. And obviously we’ve got to remember the lifetime value as well. So an MSP, it might take you a very long time to win a client, but you keep them for 5 to 10 to 15 years paying monthly recurring revenue. So to the average MSP, a new client is worth a $100,000, $200,000, maybe even a quarter of a million, would you spend $2,000 to $3,000 to win a quarter of a million pound client? I mean, everyone would say yes until the point they actually come to put in the LinkedIn adverts on, I guess. But there we go.

And again, rule of thumb, probably around 10%, right? You know that that’s what a client is worth, be investing that in finding them and bringing them in.

Yeah, no, I like that. And actually, if you do that consistently, I’ve always said this to MSPs, if you know can onboard a new client every month, wouldn’t you spend that money to onboard that client? And the answer is yes, but of course it takes time. You can’t just switch it on Monday and you get the new client on Wednesday. If it was that simple, then everyone would be doing it.

Josh, you’ve been amazing. Thank you so much for sharing an insight. So tell us what you do to help MSPs with their LinkedIn ads and how can we get in touch with you?

Yeah, absolutely. So again, I am extremely familiar in the MSP space. It was the second largest vertical at my previous agency. I’ve overseen hundreds of accounts on LinkedIn, so what I can really do is come in and fundamentally help you build a strategy that’s going to not just yield results, but try to exponentially grow them over time, by having the right structure in place. If people want to learn more about that and how I can help them, all you have to do, you can either DM me on LinkedIn, it’s linkedin.com/Joshua Stout, or you can go to influence.co, go to the advertising page and book a call. I’d be happy to talk.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Michael in Texas is making a concerted effort with marketing for his MSP.  He’s watched some previous podcasts on YouTube and found a video of me getting upset by an MSP using a particular word in their marketing. He’s asked: Why shouldn’t I use the word “user”?

Oh, I got upset did I, well, sometimes I do like to wear my heart on my sleeve.

The thing is, I get frustrated when I see an MSP using the word “user” in their marketing, or even perhaps when they talk to clients or prospects, because user is a horrible word to ordinary people. A user is someone on drugs or someone who exploits other people.

The word “user” must be banned from your marketing, from your sales, from any conversation you have outside of your business. And instead, use these words – people and person. Companies don’t have users, they have people. It’s such a simple thing to change, and yet it’s going to make such a big difference.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Joshua Stout on LinkedIn, and visit the Influent website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post To grow your MSP, scrap these pointless tasks appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Image generation on ChatGPT is 1,000x better today than it was last week. How could you use this for your MSP's marketing?

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You see that image? It's supposed to be me.

I uploaded my headshot to ChatGPT this morning, told it to place me inside Doctor Who's TARDIS (a lifelong fantasy), and put a speech bubble in my mouth telling you this news.

It replicated the time machine, my shirt and my face wrinkles just fine The rest of my face is... weird... uncanny. Clearly not really me.

But, let's look at the bigger picture. This image generation on ChatGPT is 1,000x better than what you could do this time last week.

A couple of days ago OpenAI released new image generation within its current 4o model. You can see the details here.

It can create better images. You can iterate more easily. And for the first time ever it can handle text properly without spelling mistakes and nonsense creeping in.

Here's an example of how much better it is. I fed this prompt into ChatGPT last week under the old model.

Create an image. I want it to be widescreen size. It should be in a fun cartoon style. It should show an IT technician holding a stack of software boxes. All the boxes are productivity software

And this was spat out:

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Look closely at the text, and the random elements in the background. What is poftwate? What kind of software is Infox Blastro?

Then I put the exact same prompt into the latest ChatGPT 4o model this morning. And got this:

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Stylistically it's totally different. It's very simple. But it's also more accurate. See how it even matched up the colours of the software boxes to the 365 applications?

I uploaded the last week's image and ask it to match the style. Plus, I was more specific on what I wanted displayed on the boxes.

Do it again. I want you to make 2 changes. 1) Make the style more like the image I'm uploading. And 2) Change the words on the software boxes to say things like "productivity" and "get things done" 

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Getting there. Although I spotted a spelling mistake in a poster on the wall.

There is a spelling mistake in the poster on the wall (productvite). Correct that mistake and render it again

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Wow. The image iteration is a lot better. It's still generating the whole image from scratch rather than changing the incorrect element. But it's way better than last week, when it would have generated a completely different image.

Note: The flip side of this improvement... it's also a LOT slower to generate. I'm talking minutes with some of the tests I've done today. I'm sure it'll speed up over time.

So... what does this mean for your MSP's marketing?

You could use it to generate original images for your website's blog or LinkedIn. It opens up a whole host of ideas.

For example, you could generate a photo real image that illustrates some content with your city's famous landmarks in the background.

Or you could give it a photo of you and your technicians. And use yourselves as characters in your images.

What ideas do you have? Comment and let me know.

PS in my MSP Marketing Edge we use ChatGPT to generate images for communications to our 700+ members, but NOT the images supplied for them to use in their marketing.

Sure we use AI to try out ideas and create elements for within the images. It's a useful production tool. But the images are created, composited and checked by my human team.

Why? Because I believe that right now, trained professional humans still beat AI hands down for professional content creation with 100% control.

PPS this pop-up was on the ChatGPT window today... looks like they're really going after Google's lunch...

The post MSPs: Image generation on ChatGPT got SIGNIFICANTLY better this week appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Can you say "heeeey... thanks LinkedIn" for helping a client pick YOU? Here's what other MSPs are using LinkedIn for (77% visit to do research on potential clients)

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Last week I asked thousands of MSPs across my audiences this question: What do you want from LinkedIn?

Thanks if you were one of the many people who filled in the anonymous survey. The results have been eye opening - here are the most interesting ones.

Starting with this stat...

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Wow! Half of MSPs who responded believe LinkedIn had helped them win a new client.

And look at how often MSPs are visiting LinkedIn...

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These are the top 5 reasons to visit...

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Some quckfire stats

Stat 1) The average MSP has about 1,075 connections

Stat 2) The highest number of connections recorded was 5,500. The lowest was 50

Stat 3) 38% of MSPs who responded believe other technology people make up a quarter of their connections (not ideal - you almost need 2x LinkedIn accounts, one for your professional network, and one for prospecting with ordinary business owners and managers)

Stat 4) When asked "overall, how important is LinkedIn to your MSP's lead gen", the overall average score was 3.8 out of 5

And then the big open question - "if you could wave a magic wand and discover anything about how to use LinkedIn for lead generation, what would it be?"

Here are some select answers...

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Interesting stuff, right? And there's a ton of detail I haven't shown you, especially from that magic wand question.

The post 50% of MSPs have won a client thanks to LinkedIn appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

The post MSPs: A super smart (yet simple) way to reach senior decision makers on LinkedIn appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 276 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• Happy client? Ask for a testimonial NOW: There is a perfect moment to ask your clients for a testimonial or review. This social proof is really important, and when you systemise collecting it, it’s going to make your life so much easier.
• Why MSPs should add new LinkedIn connections every day: LinkedIn is the single most important place for MSPs to go marketing right now and I’m going to tell you the best way to leverage it.
• How this MSP marketer grew the business: There’s no better way for you to find the right ideas to market your business than listening to other people who are doing it right now. My guest talks us through what he’s done and what you can take away and implement quickly.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Do you know what a vanity URL is and have you ever wondered if you need one? An MSP has asked the question which I answer in this episode.

Happy client? Ask for a testimonial NOW

What if I told you there was a perfect moment to ask your MSP’s clients for a testimonial or review. But you must act on it super quickly, as that moment will very fast vanish. If you struggle to collect social proof from your clients, this is going to make your life so much easier and even allow you to systemise getting testimonials and reviews from your happiest clients.

So we all know that social proof is really, really important. Social proof is when people see other people like them acting in a certain way, and it gives them kind of a feeling of safety to know that other people have already tread the path that they are thinking of treading. And what I mean by that is collecting testimonials, reviews, and case studies from your existing clients, and then using that “social proof”, as it’s called, to persuade other people to pick your MSP.

You’ll be perceived as a safer choice by business owners and managers if they see that other business owners and managers have already picked you and are happy to endorse you.

Now, you’ve probably heard this before, but maybe there’s been something that’s been holding you back from collecting lots of social proof. Maybe it’s just been you simply haven’t had enough time, too many things to do, right? Or maybe you felt a little awkward asking your clients to give you a review or a testimonial. I mean, they’re already paying you money every month, surely you can’t ask them for something else, can you? Well, as a side note, yes you can. In fact, your best clients are often the most delighted to give you a testimonial or review because they want to see you succeed so that they can continue to enjoy your service.

Whatever the reason you don’t have enough social proof yet, let me tell you the perfect moment to go asking for it. You’re looking for the point at which your client is at their happiest, and we can actually predict when this will be. There are two, maybe three times that they’re most likely to be at their happiest, and the first will be about 90 days after they very first joined you. So that first month is always a little bit manic, isn’t it? As you are onboarding them and you are migrating any services away from their previous MSP. And then the second and third months are where you work your magic and where the really good stuff happens. So they see little problems that never got sorted with the previous MSP get fixed by you. And you probably over service them a little in that first month or so, so everyone is very happy with you, they’re all glad that they switched over to you. And can you see why that would be an exceptionally good time to ask them for a review or a testimonial?

Also, after 90 days, they feel as though they’ve sampled enough of your service to endorse you, and they wouldn’t do that in the first week or so. Another great time to ask them for social proof is after you’ve completed a big project for them, especially if it’s perhaps a massive, complex project with lots of moving parts. The relief from them that the project has been completed and the pleasure of the benefits that that project brings them are both things that you can leverage when you are asking for some social proof at this stage. Now, with both of these two examples I’ve just given you, can you see how you can systemise asking for social proof into the process of onboarding or completing a project? You can actually set a reminder for 90 days into a new relationship with a new client or at the point that the project has been successfully delivered, you can build it in and add it as a to-do, as a task to contact your client and ask them for social proof.

And there is actually one more ideal opportunity, a great place to ask them for a testimonial or a review. And that’s when you have completed a major fix or a rescue for your clients. Now, let’s say they’ve had some kind of massive breakdown in something that was out of your control, you didn’t know and couldn’t have predicted it would’ve gone wrong, but you had to jump in and fix it. Maybe they’ve been compromised in some way and you’ve swept in, you’ve done your magic and you’ve rescued them, and now everything is fantastic again. This is the perfect moment to ask for social proof because even though technology has been a nightmare for them for the last few days, maybe even weeks, you’ve rescued them like a knight in shining armour. And you can’t systemise a moment like this because you don’t know when it’s going to happen. But can you see how really this is no different to the previous two examples, you are asking your clients for social proof at the exact moment they are emotionally overwhelmed with gratitude for you.

Great social proof comes from the heart and not from the brain. You want people to be talking about how they feel about you and your team, not the logical fact about working with you. Good social proof persuades people to pick you at an emotional level. And the only way you can do this is to get emotional content from your existing clients to put in front of your leads and your prospects. So let me ask you, which of these three moments are you going to use to collect more social proof from your clients? you. But a project is the most obvious small thing to sell people.

Why MSPs should add new LinkedIn connections every day

If you only had 10 minutes a day to market your MSP, there’s one single place where I would recommend you invested all of that time. It’s the single most important place for MSPs to go marketing in 2025. And if you’re not there building it up every single day, you really are missing a massive marketing opportunity.

Let me tell you what it is, how to leverage it, and a way to make it seem so easy that it feels like you’re doing almost no work every day yet across a year, you are going to see huge results.

I made a big decision with my MSP Marketing Edge product development team at the backend of last year, and we’ve launched an exciting new project, which is now helping our members reach more decision makers on LinkedIn. And better influence them there as well. But why my obsession with LinkedIn? Well, that’s kind of easy. It is the most powerful social network for MSPs. Every prospect you could ever want is there and you can easily reach them.

Do you know what kind of businesses you’d most like to work with? Well start by looking for them on LinkedIn.

You want to connect with the decision makers and the influencers. And there are a few ways to do this. You could make a list of business names and run a LinkedIn search, or you could decide on several verticals you like and search for, let’s say lawyers in your town, accountants in your town, etc etc. You can also repeat this search on Google, adding the word LinkedIn of course for a shortcut. Find someone in your town who’s already connected to the people you want to reach. Connect to them and then connect to their connections. And by the way, there is a setting in LinkedIn that hides your connections to stop someone doing this to you.

Every weekday I recommend you attempt to connect to 10 new people, and yes, you may need a paid LinkedIn subscription to do this. Also maybe only two of them will accept your connection request, which doesn’t sound a lot until you look at the big picture figures. Two connections a day, times five days, times 50 weeks equals 500 new connections a year, every year. And suddenly the power of a marketing system strikes again. This is why you want to turn this activity into a regular, probably even daily task. It’s 10, maybe 15 minutes of work every day, which is nothing but over a year in the grand scheme of things, it compounds and all of those tiny actions turn into something impressive.

If you want to be really smart with this, then you’ll personally not do this work yourself. Go and find a virtual assistant or a member of your team to make these connection requests every day for you. All you need to do is brief this person on the kind of connections that you want to make and then give them access to your personal LinkedIn. You do it all in your LinkedIn. Now, I know that that might make you feel funny having someone else sat there in your LinkedIn, but so long as you find an assistant or a member of your team that you can trust and you put in place some checks, it will be okay. In fact, I’ve been operating this way for years on LinkedIn. If you and I have ever chatted on LinkedIn, well, if it was a very simple conversation that we had, it was probably not me, it was probably my virtual assistant Christelle. Or if it was a more complex conversation than it would’ve been me jumping in, but you wouldn’t have known. It does mean that christelle is doing 80% of the work on building up my LinkedIn and having basic conversations, and I just have to swoop in and do the 20% of stuff that really only I can do.

Now, that’s a really smart way of doing any marketing, and it’s a great way of protecting your personal time while getting more solid marketing done. So let’s summarise that… building a simple system that attempts new connections every day and getting someone else to do this for you. This is very, very smart marketing that over time will give you a great big base of people to start talking to a whole ton of leads that you can start working and generating prospects from.

How this MSP marketer grew the business

Heads up, here’s someone who’s there in the trenches marketing an MSP day in day out. There’s no better way for you to find the right ideas to market your business than listening to other people who have shovels in their hand and are doing it right now. Let’s explore what he’s done over the last three years and which great ideas you can take away and implement quickly.

Hi, I’m Dan Grech. I’m the founder and CEO of Biz Hack Academy, and we are a marketing training and consulting company, and we provide fractional CMO services to MSPs around the world.

And thank you so much for joining me on the podcast, Dan. You’ve got an amazing to tell about an MSP that you’ve been working with for three years, and you’ve taken them from literally zero marketing to a nice complex marketing machine that’s really delivering results for them. So we’re going to look at what you’ve done that’s worked well, what you’ve tried that didn’t work, and then let’s have a look at what you’re thinking of doing with them for the next three years. Before we tell that story, let’s find out a little bit about you. What’s your background? How did you get into this wonderful world of marketing MSPs?

Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for being here and I’m really excited to tell you about this story of one MSP. We work with many different MSPs, but the story of this particular MSP, we’re not going to mention their name, is I think really illustrative of the opportunity and the challenges of marketing your MSP online – it’s a very crowded space. MSPs tend to be “me too” businesses, in other words there’s a lot of competition that looks very similar on the surface, and we’ve developed some really good lessons and best practices that we hope that all of your MSPs who are listening can share.

My background actually is as a journalist, I spent 15 years in the United States working for NPR and PBS and the Miami Herald and the Washington Post, and I was a storyteller basically. I even got my master’s degree in storytelling. And then about 10 years ago, like so many other journalists, I lost my job. I had to reinvent. I reinvented myself first as a digital marketer, then as a trainer of digital marketing. I love to train people in what I want to learn. I love to learn by teaching, if you will. And then finally, as a business owner, starting my own training and consulting company, which I’ve been running now for almost 10 years – Biz Hack Academy.

And one of the services that we provide is fractional CMO services. This is a part-time outsourced head of marketing. Basically providing thought partnership to the CEO and helping oversee and lead a team of marketers and agencies in support of accomplishing the CEO’s vision. Most MSP heads are technical people. They’re very operationally focused, and generally speaking they’re terrible at marketing. And so it’s really important that most MSPs that are looking to grow have someone in that seat, that head of marketing role, who can help them filter all their good ideas and then make sure that the team is executing against the best ones.

Over the course of these three years, we’ve learned a lot of lessons about what works and what doesn’t. And I’m excited to share that journey. And we’re just right now as we plan for next year, we’re recording this in December, right before the new year 2025, we’re now actually creating our next three year strategy because we have had so much success over these three years building a great foundation.

What kind of situation was the MSP in when you first started working with them? They must have had a website, they must have had a LinkedIn presence, but was that it? Were they doing any marketing at all?

First of all, this MSP has three divisions, and I think this is really important because in one sense, I would almost say that this MSP didn’t follow necessarily marketing best practices because they had such a large Chinese menu of services. So the first service they offer is security and access control, these are cameras, access control for garages and doors like physical installations. Second, they offered unified communications, so this is like VoIP. And then third, they offer IT managed services, which includes things like cyber security, it’s a massive field.

One of the biggest challenges that we faced early on was you have these three divisions and most of the products, the services, the vendors that they work with weren’t even listed on their website. I described internally, I would say it’s like you guys are a Chinese food restaurant where you don’t even list everything on your menu. So that was one big issue. As far as the website itself, this was the worst website situation I’d ever seen. They were using some old platform, I don’t even remember the name, that wasn’t indexed or indexable by Google – they were literally invisible on the internet. So though they had a 35 year history, in this case, they were invisible online.

In terms of the marketing that they were doing at the time, they had one individual who was sort of like their social media video person. And then they had a couple of divisional salespeople for each of the three divisions who also oversaw marketing communications. And so the very first thing that we did with them is we ran all three of them as well as the CEO through a training program. And this served a couple of really important functions. Number one is it gave them a shared language for marketing. At Biz Hack Academy we call it the lead building system. I think it’s worth just quickly talking about what is the lead building system because it’s a really simplified form of marketing that’s very relevant to MSPs.

The foundation of a lead building system is your business story. This is the founder’s reason for starting the company and the purpose of the company in the world… why you do what you do and why it matters.

I’d love to dig into that a little bit and how defining the owner’s business story was an unlocking mechanism for growth for this company. That’s the foundation, ultimately, people only do business with people they like and trust, but if you’re actually looking to generate leads, there are six pillars. You need to identify what is the campaign objective? How are we going to measure success? Are you looking to get them to watch a video, click on it, click on a link, open an email, etc. Then you need to really narrowly identify your target audience and give them an irresistible offer.

For most MSPs, you’re really offering them knowledge in exchange for their contact information. So you’re establishing yourself as an expert and then ultimately, ideally collecting their contact information, email and phone number so you can follow up with them. That’s the core of strategy. Who’s your audience and what are you giving them of value in exchange for their contact info? Next is thumb stopping visuals and compelling messaging. That’s the essence of tactical marketing – images, videos, audio, text, and obviously leveraging AI to the hilt to do that. Those are pillars four and five. And then pillar six is the customer journey, the buyer’s journey. How do they go from never having heard of you to a sale? And each campaign takes them on a next step in their customer journey. And so it’s an iterative process. You run an ad that leads them to click on a button and takes them to a landing page – so the objective to the ad is clicks. Then on the landing page, they fill out a form – so the objective of the landing page is form fills. And it’s iterative like that. And then now they’ve given you their email address -the objective of them is to open the email and book a call and so forth. And so you do this iterative process and this is how you market.

Yeah, that makes perfect sense. And it’s obviously taken you three years and I can see why it’s taken you three years, there’s a lot of stuff in there. You’ve built an entire marketing platform. So in terms of results, go back three years when they had an unindexable website, which I’ve never heard of in 2025, that’s nuts. But where were they getting their leads from? Was it just word of mouth? Was it just doing some networking locally? And then today, what kind of a difference is there? Is it a reliable amount of leads coming in? Do they have a reliable amount of discovery calls booked? What’s the difference from before to after?

They’d been in business for 35 years, and so they were getting the business and they still get most of their business in ways that are going to be familiar to any MSP, through personal networking and referrals. The problem was they were losing a lot of business that would get referred to them. They would check out their online presence, they’d say this isn’t a serious company – too small, not a good risk to take. I mean, one of the things about MSPs is MSPs are basically CYAs, right? The head of IT for a company, the chief information officer of a company is looking to hire a partner for an MSP that’s going to make them not look bad, that’s going to keep things working, that’s going to largely be invisible, and then when things go wrong, we’ll be immediately accessible and available to them. So it’s a very heavy on risk vendor relationship. And if you aren’t really on point with your digital presence, they’re going to disqualify you. So this is an invisible cost to a poor digital presence. You need a good functioning website, a decently active presence on social media, good blogs, ideally some really good educational content. It’s not going to necessarily close you the business, but it won’t lose you the business.

The first thing was building up that platform so that they weren’t losing the business that was already coming to them. It was all manual, it was all about them going networking. They were in three different markets, they had three different divisions, they had a pretty large sales team. It was very much of a sales driven company, and marketing was at best just kind of trickling out some email and social media.

So now fast forward three years, I’m actually looking at their data right now. They have dramatically increased. They have more than 1200 back links, which are different links from other organisations sending to their site. We’re on the track now to make that 20,000 back links over the next three years. They have an authority score from nothing to 16, we’re going to have that up to 40 over the next three years. And their organic traffic, which was literally in the dozens when we first met, is now breaking 5,000 per month, on its way to 50,000 and beyond. We’re right now in the early stages of the L curve, the hockey stick of growth. Because SEO in particular is very much a long-term additive strategy.

Our goal over the first three years, which we hit, was to build out a thousand articles and landing pages. We have a landing page now for every item on that Chinese menu. In other words, every product or service that they have, every vendor they work with will have pages and often multiple pages, and there’ll be localised versions of each of those pages for the geographies that they serve. Because as you know, a lot of search is best communications or best VoIP provider in Chicago. So need those geographically specific landing pages. And so this is a massive undertaking to get everything on their website listed with accuracy and length. And so a big part of those three years was just getting that Chinese menu with geographically localised pages onto the website.

And then we also did a ton with email acquiring lists, generating lists through our content. And then finally, social media has primarily been just kind of showing that the company’s alive. We have the technicians sending photos before and after as part of the due diligence process, and then we post those photos and they do shockingly well. People love seeing messy cords turned into clean cords. So the before and afters do really well for us. So that’s kind of the social media.

And then of course, PPC paid advertising, and that’s a challenge. It’s expensive, but it’s the primary driver to date of new business.

Yeah, no, absolutely. And obviously all that work you’ve done over the last three years putting in place the basics, the solid basics is going to contribute, well, I’m sure that’s going to contribute more in the next 3, 4, 5 years ahead. Two very quick final questions for you, Dan. First of one, you mentioned earlier on about the business owner story. I just wanted to pick up on that and just close that loop if we could. And secondly, just give us a sneak preview of some of the ideas that you’re thinking about doing with this MSP over the next three years.

Absolutely. So if I could give one takeaway to your MSPs, this is the single marketing tip that will make the biggest difference in the speed of your growth. And it’s almost counterintuitive, which is talk more about yourself. Everything in marketing is, it’s all about them. It’s all about solving the customer’s pain points. But you have to remember if they’re the hero, if they’re the Luke Skywalker, you as the business owner are the Jedi knight who is going to help them become the hero they’re meant to be. They don’t just hire anybody off the street. They hire someone that they like and they trust, and how do you build liking and trusting? It’s through a personal story. And so identifying why you do what you do, why you are personally committed and dedicated to being an MSP, to providing these services, to helping solve the technology challenges of your clients, while you have that sort of servant mentality describing where that came from, who taught you to value service, how you started your career, the startup story of your company, and then who you serve and why you serve them and why you love to serve them. Those are all things that will take a boutique MSP and help them stand out from the crowd because it’s a very crowded and undifferentiated space. And if you do not speak to who the owner is and why he or she does what she does, you will lose business. So that is my number one growth tip.

Now in terms of what we’re going to do over the next three years, so first of all, aligned with that is we’re going to position the CEO as a thought leader in his industry. We’re going to get very noisy about that online. We’re running webinars and webinar series. We’re then cutting them up to create social video. We’re partnering with vendors. We actually, the company bought a cyber truck, and we’re actually partnering with vendors and doing cyber truck demo videos using the vendors. So we’re doing all sorts of creative campaigns like that.

We’re leveraging social media like IMGUR is a platform, Reddit, Quora. So all of those platforms we’re expanding into in these first three years. We just didn’t have the resources to do that, now we have the bandwidth to do that, and we are doubling down on SEO, accelerating the content creation, doing it in the niches and the keywords that we know are winnable through our research. And then really focusing our paid on the security division, which we know is the most winnable, the least competitive, and the one that when they come in for the security division, they tend to get upsold into the IT services and the unified communications. So being really smart about where we’re spending our advertising dollars to maximise. We also are finding incredible results from Bing ads, which is a much cheaper and less competitive marketplace. And it’s all really on a foundation of content creation, being an expert, creating videos and blog posts that answer the specific questions that IT professionals have. The analogy is just like people go to YouTube to learn techniques, to fix their sink or do some home improvement. MSP clients are doing similar things except with their more advanced technologies. And so if you can be that person that they see giving that expert advice, you’re positioned to win that sale.

We are getting you back on this show in 2028, so we can hear what’s happened at the end of the six years. Maybe we should just get you on every three years. Dan, just for those MSPs that want to have a chat with you, see if maybe your fractional CMO services is something that would sit well with them, what’s the best way to get in touch?

Yeah, thank you. So go to BizHack.com, and they’ll see at the top that one of our services is fractional CMO services, and they should book a call with me, and I’m happy to talk to them. We have more than 80 fractional CMOs. We work with dozens of MSPs around the country. We have a deep expertise in exactly what they need and how to approach it, and we will help you grow faster.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Patrick is in Newcastle with his MSP in the northeast of England, and he has two questions in relation to his website. Firstly, What is a vanity URL? And secondly, Do I need one?

There’s a quick and easy answer to this one. A vanity URL is used to hide a real URL for a promotion. It’s typically used in offline media where someone has to type something in. So for example, you might have an advert in a magazine or a billboard (which side note, it isn’t something I’d recommend, but let’s just go with the example), and let’s say the call to action on the magazine advert is to go to a special landing page at yourwebsite.com/landingpage. And the reason you’re sending them to that special page is to measure how much traffic you get from the advert. It’s really important that there’s no other way that they can get to that URL, it’s not in your website navigation or anything like that. You don’t advertise it elsewhere. It just shows you all the traffic that’s come to this page must have come from the magazine advert.

The risk is as they’re typing it in that they get to the.com and they stop. That’s natural human behaviour, but that means they’ll be visiting your homepage and not the special landing page. So that skews your results. It’ll completely screw your stats up, and you’d think that the advert generated no traffic. In fact, then you’d be crying and the advertising people will be crying as well, and it would all just get horribly messy. So instead, you buy a vanity URL such as getbetterIT.com, and then you divert it to the actual URL, that one that had the slash, and that way the people responding to the advert cannot get it wrong. There’s no slashes, there’s no extensions, it’s just the base URL, and you get to know exactly what response you get. Another way of doing this, of course, would be to have a QR code, and personally, I would actually do both of these in a magazine advert, which as I said, I don’t really recommend you do anyway. But if you do, now you know how to judge whether or not you’ll get any response from it.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest, Dan Grech on LinkedIn, and visit the BizHack website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

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How do you reach your MSP's leads and prospects? If it's primarily through a "borrowed audience", such as social media, you need to read this...

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Imagine you're at the movies back in the 1990s, and the trailers are showing.

All movie trailers were the same back then. A voiceover guy with a really deep voice talking about the main character (usually Bruce Willis) being "the wrong man, in the wrong place... at the wrong time..."

Well, that was my friend and channel legend Matt Solomon on Christmas Eve just gone. I was flicking through Facebook, scoffing a mince pie, when I spotted this post:

Matt's Christmas Eve post on Facebook

As the voiceover guy would say...

"Matt was an innocent man - locked in prison, for a crime he did not commit."

What a nightmare.

Matt had 17,000+ connections on LinkedIn. And it looks like something he posted inadvertently tripped a safety algorithm somewhere. His account was automatically suspended.

What's scary is that this could happen to any of us at any time.

LinkedIn is an amazing platform. I use it every day and recommend it as the number one place MSPs go fishing for business.

But its greatest limitation is that it is a borrowed audience.

You do not own your connections, content or interactions on LinkedIn. They belong to LinkedIn. You just get to borrow them, because that benefits you and the platform at the same time.

Other borrowed audiences include:

• All other social media platforms
• YouTube
• Online communities that you contribute to
• You appearing on someone's podcast, or in the media

The alternative is owned audiences. These are safer as you have direct 100% control over what happens with them. Examples include:

• Your email list
• Visitors to your website
• Subscribers to your podcast
• The list of people who visited your trade show booth

The downside of owned audiences is that it takes a LOT more work and cash to build them and get something from them. LinkedIn can make a post go viral with no work needed from you... but your podcast won't go viral unless you push it and push it for years.

I believe you need a blend of both kinds of audiences.

Matt does this. He has a lot of followers across social media, but also has a huge email subscriber list. In the unlikely event his CRM declined to send his emails tomorrow, that data is his - and he can take it to an alternative CRM.

I recommend to my MSP Marketing Edge members that they turn LinkedIn connections into data in their CRM (and we give them a checklist to do this). This allows them to reach the same people through two different channels, but also gives them a safety barrier.

What's the situation in your MSP? If you lost your borrowed audiences tomorrow, could you still reach your leads and prospects?

PS... just like a 1990 Bruce Willis movie, Matt's story has a happy ending...

Fixed

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You know your marketing is making an impact when someone threatens to have you arrested.

Here's a lesson in lateral thinking and how powerful it is to have zero marketing budget. Very useful for many MSPs.

Jump in the DeLorean with me... it's 2002 and I'm running a music radio station in the city of Peterborough, UK.

In the years before I joined, the station took a battering from its competitors. And my brief was to build up the audience again.

Just to test me, the large media group that owned the station gave me this budget...

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Zero dollars? Thanks for nothing, guys

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NOW I can see this was a blessing. It taught me the power of bootstrapping. Where we had to do our marketing using only the existing resources in the station. I learned so many valuable business lessons.

The way you market a radio station is different from the way you market an MSP.

You need an easy direct marketing strategy, such as my 3 step lead generation system:

• Build audiences
• Grow relationships
• Convert relationships

For radio marketing 20+ years ago it was about getting the name and address out there. The name of the station, the type of music it played and the FM frequency.

So we did car stickers and had a couple of promotional vehicles. But I couldn't afford billboards or any kind of advertising. Yet I wanted to dominate the city.

Then one day, someone on my team came up with the most brilliant idea ever.

We were discussing how dirty the pavements (aka sidewalks) were in our city, and how they needed a good jet washing (aka pressure washing).

One colleague joked "maybe we should clean them"... then another said "what if we DID clean them, but used a template so it left behind our logo on the street?"

Today this has a name - clean advertising - here's an example I found online...

---

The logo is the only bit that's been cleaned

The post The free marketing tactic that nearly got me arrested appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 263 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• How to create the perfect MSP about us page: An about us page must be about the people and the core values of your business. But it’s not really about us, it’s about the prospect. It’s a selling page.
• It takes 50+ touchpoints to get a new client for your MSP: Don’t run marketing campaigns – set up a marketing system.  Long-term a system will outperform any campaign you could run, I promise you.
• A Google ads strategy for MSPs: If you want to try Google ads, don’t try to be all things to all people.  You need to be very specific to stand out in a competitive market.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Christine from an MSP in Portland wants to know why I’m so insistent that MSPs hire a phone person to contact prospects.

How to create the perfect MSP about us page

The two most important pages on your website are the homepage and the about us page. Why? Because those are the pages that most people are going to look at, the ones they’re most going to be influenced by because they’re most likely to land on your website on the homepage. And then of course they want to know what you’re about. They want to know who the people are behind the business, so they’ll head over to the about us page.

Let’s have a look at some of the elements that you should have on your MSPs about us page to make sure it delivers the most value to your business. Now, where a homepage is almost like a summary of the whole business, the about us page is about the people and the core values of the business. So of course you still have an attention grabbing headline, although a different one to the one that you have on the homepage. And of course you’d still have your social proof, data capture maybe, and certainly a call to action, plus of course videos and photographs of real people. It’s just that you present those in different ways than you would do on your homepage.

The most important thing on your about us page is your story. But it needs to be presented in a way that’s relevant to the reader.

And actually it’s not really about you – you can talk a little bit about you and how you are really into tech, and as a child and you are obsessed with computers, and as a teenager and you’ve been doing it now for 800 years and then 20 years ago you had an entrepreneurial seizure and you decided you’ve got to do your own things, your own way, etc, etc.

I mean, all of that is good. In fact, actually you can take that backstory, you can embellish it, you can enhance it, but you have to tell it in a way that makes it interesting to the reader. Because you being obsessed with computers, that’s not really of interest to them until they realise or you tell them that it means that you are across every technology detail in your business, and you only hire people who are incredibly attention focused, very good technology people, and they’re very good at following systems and documenting success, and all of that kind of thing.

So, you take your story and you keep flipping it round and looking at it from a different angle so that actually your story is about the reader. Even an about us page is not really an about us page, it’s about the prospect. It’s a selling page. That’s what it really is. So of course something else you’d do on there is you’d put some case studies on there. Now, if you’ve got case studies on your homepage, you can repeat those, and video case studies are absolutely fine, you can repeat those across the site. You can also repeat just sort of normal printed case studies or PDF case studies that they could download or even just webpage case studies as well.

You don’t have to have those completely separate between the homepage and the about us page, but you do need to make sure you have some kind of case studies on your about us page. People go to an about us page because they want to know about the people, they want to know who it is they might end up buying from. But also of course with the case studies, they want to see who else you are working with. And case studies are typically more influential because it’s a form of social proof. It makes you appear safe to people who are thinking of buying from you. When they can see that other people like them have trusted you and continue to trust you, that makes you a very safe pair of hands to them. That’s what we’re trying to get them to feel.

And then the next thing you need is something about what drives you and your team. How do you all jump out of bed every morning? Do you all run into the office? You can’t wait to get your hands on a keyboard and do all those proactive checks to stop things going wrong and how you actually feel honoured to protect people. You feel honoured and proud to think that a thousand people in your local area trust you every day to keep them working. They trust you and your team. That’s the kind of intent and the kind of language that we want to see on your about us page. We want drive, we want passion. We want to see and feel and smell that passion, because passion sells. And the more passion you can put actually into your overall website, but especially your about us page, the more you’re going to connect with people, the more you’re going to engage with them.

And then I suggest you put on some stuff about your family if you can, if it’s acceptable to you to do this. Put on a photo of you, your other half, maybe even your kids. I’ve seen quite a few MSPs do that. And it’s great because it makes you real. It makes you not just an IT person and the owner of the business. It makes you a wife or a husband or a mom or a dad. And this is really, really important because it makes you human. You will find a photo of me and my child on my MSP Marketing Edge website. And again, that helps us to connect because it shows you that I’m a real person. People do business with people. They don’t do business with businesses, people buy from people. This is really important to understand. So let’s show them the people.

You almost want to reflect anything which makes you connectable. Let’s say for example, you are really into a local sport, let’s say football. And you might have a piece on your about us page about how much you’re into football, perhaps even with a photo review in your local team kit or photograph with some of the players or something. If you are really into, let’s say playing golf, you’d have a photo of you with your golf sticks. I don’t do golf obviously, you can tell by that. But if you do, again, that makes you relatable to anyone that does golf. If you adore where you live, absolutely adore it, then have a photo of you next to one of the big landmarks in your town or something like that. The kind of landmark that everyone would recognise. It’s all about connections. If people buy from people, you’ve got to show them the real you.

And I’ll tell you what else you can use is a bit of business nostalgia. Nostalgia is great. So if you’ve got a photo of you in your first van or some kind of photo of you at your first desk back in the day or with an old computer, there is that famous photo floating out there of Jeff Bezos of Amazon. Sat at his first desk in his garage in Seattle in 1995 and the desk was made of an old door. And that’s still a thing that they do now at Amazon. They use desks made out of doors because it’s all part of their heritage, it’s all part of their nostalgia, which is great. Not that Amazon needs an about us page, but you get the idea. Now you can do exactly the same thing. Show us something from the past. If you’ve got, maybe it could be a photo of you as a child sat with a really vintage computer or just you without the grey hair.

Something like that would be an absolute great piece of business nostalgia. And people really do love this and they connect to it. Now of course, it’s not just about you, the owner, the leader on the about us page, you should have some profiles and pictures of your team. They only need to be like 25, 30 word profiles. They don’t need to be huge, perhaps just about what they do in their spare time or something quirky. You could even do like a mini interview with them – what’s their favourite food, what’s their favourite place to visit, what’s their favourite sport, which is the best Star Wars movie – that kind of thing. And you can just do little profiles of the team. Again, works really well with a photo of them on your about us page.

And then one final thing to go on this page, and you’re not going to be surprised by this. It is of course a call to action because we need to have that. Every single page of your website needs a call to action. And the very best one right now, it still is your live calendar so people can book in a 15 minute discovery call with you. That’s really important because that about us page is a core sales page.

It takes 50+ touchpoints to get a new client for your MSP:

It always makes me a little bit sad when I hear an MSP owner is pinning all of their growth hopes on a new marketing campaign. Because campaigns are typically one-offs, a burst of intense activity followed by a return to the default of intending to do marketing but not getting around to it.

I know that marketing campaigns are really popular. Lots of vendors give them away free as a value add. I can see how as an MSP, your brain will fill up with all this delicious dopamine when you see a campaign and you feel excited by the possibilities.

Here’s the fundamental problem that you’re fighting.

Managed Services is one of the most unusual sales on the planet, and people only buy when they are ready to buy.

There’s almost nothing you can do to speed this up. The big problem with running a campaign is that it’s a one-off burst of activity. So you do some marketing on a Monday, but they’re not ready to buy yet. So you do some more marketing on a Wednesday, but they’re not ready to buy yet. On Friday, you need a rest so you don’t bother with marketing and yet that’s the day that they wake up ready to buy, but you are not there in front of them. And don’t believe that they will remember you or your MSP’s name and brand. They really won’t unless you have a marketing message in front of them at the exact moment that their brain is ready to see it.

Trust me, a proportion of your clients don’t know what your MSP is called. So you haven’t got a hope in hell of your prospects knowing what the name of your business is. This is why my three-step marketing system is the most powerful idea in MSP marketing. It’s easy to understand, but also solid and powerful. Build audiences, grow relationships, convert relationships. And the idea is to build a relationship with someone months and years before they’re ready to leave their current MSP. This is where the idea of 50 plus touchpoints comes from. If you Google it, it’ll say that you need seven or eight touchpoints with a prospect. Well, not for what you sell. You need an ongoing never ending stream of touchpoints so that the morning they wake up and they’re ready to talk, boom, you are there in front of them. Whether that’s tomorrow, whether that’s May next year, whether it’s someday in 2026.

And your touch points might include daily LinkedIn posts that they see now and again. A weekly email that they open just once a month because they don’t open that many emails. A monthly printed newsletter that sits on their desk waiting to be read or gets passed onto a colleague or something like that. A regular blog and video on your website that they sometimes read. A weekly LinkedIn newsletter they see in their feed or they open in their email occasionally. A short conversation about their business that they had with your colleague on the phone. A buyer’s guide that they’ve flick through, which tells them how to pick an MSP. A LinkedIn message from you that they acknowledge but they don’t really remember. All of these are touch points and they can all be swept up into a marketing system with tasks you do daily, tasks you do weekly, and tasks you do monthly. And best of all, you personally don’t need to do these tasks. Much of the work that I’ve just talked about there can be delegated or outsourced to someone else.

A Google ads strategy for MSPs:

Most MSPs have considered doing Google ads at some point. It kind of makes sense because the very nature of Google ads is it puts you in front of a lead at the exact moment that they’re looking for someone like you. The problem is Google ads are very expensive and they do generate a lot of noise. My guest today has a very good take on the right kind of strategy for Google ads and some suggestions how you can use it as a channel for lead generation into your MSP.

Hey, this is John Horn and I am the CEO of a StubGroup, a digital advertising agency. 

And we’re especially going to be talking about Google pay per click (PPC) today because it’s one of those things that you look at it 20 years ago and everyone seemed to be doing Google pay per click and paying pence, just pennies for their adverts. Whereas these days you can be paying $10, $20 or more. And lots of MSPs have tried it, lots of MSPs have spent a ton of cash and then burnt out within a week.

And John, I’m hoping, I know you work with a lot of MSPs doing their pay per click, and I’m hoping you can give us some insights today on how to use pay per click to generate leads for an MSP. So let’s first of all look at you and your career. So what’s your background and how did you get into this wonderful and very technical world of pay per click?

Yeah, I’ve been doing this world of pay per click for over a decade at this point. Prior to that was in just various marketing roles and then morphed into a StubGroup where I’m at now. And so I’ve been able to track that journey, like you said, of going from very inexpensive traffic to where we are today.

Yeah, I mean it’s crazy. My best friend actually, he built a business up, we’re talking 2002, 2003, and he was spending the equivalent of $120,000 a week on adverts, which is insane back then, right? I mean that would be insane today, but that was doubly insane. But what he discovered, because he was getting, he did tell me the figures a couple of years ago, he was spending let’s say three pence or four pence, he was based in the UK, so that’s let’s say 10 cents for a click and he was making a dollar in revenue for every 10 cents. And when you broke it down to you spend 10 cents and then three, four weeks later someone’s got through your sales process and you make a dollar, who wouldn’t do that, right? Who wouldn’t work up to $120,000? It was a training business that he built that up on, that same model wouldn’t work today because today of course, that same advert isn’t costing 10 cents, it’s costing $10, $20, $30, $40, but may still only bring in that $10. Is that what you see as one of the primary challenges to doing pay per click, people understanding the economics of it?

I would say that’s one of the primary challenges. Yeah, like you said, it’s become very competitive, so cost per clicks are quite high. So it becomes crucial to figure out okay, with how high the cost per clicks are, we have to be laser targeted with what searches we’re going after, what keywords do we want to target because it’s really easy to, like you mentioned, waste money and get those economics out of scale.

Although of course for an MSP, if they win a new client today and let’s say that’s a thousand dollars a month monthly recurring revenue, they will keep that client for 5, 7, 10 years. So that thousand dollars a month becomes $120,000 of what we call lifetime value. So I guess if I was to ask any MSP, would you spend a thousand bucks today to win 120,000 pounds worth of revenue, albeit you’ve got to stick around for 10 years to do the work. You’d think many MSPs would say yes to that. So is that the kind of thinking that you bring to pay per click campaigns or do you have a different way of looking at it?

Yeah, lifetime value is super important. So it’s coming to it and saying, okay, obviously there is going to be a timeframe. It’s going to take a while often to close leads, but then hopefully they’re going to stick around for a long time. And so what is the average lifetime value of your clients? What are the different kind of buckets? And then we got to factor that into, okay, what is a realistic profitable amount that we can spend or that we can put into test budgets to see if we can get the right quality of leads on the Google ads side of things. If you’re like, hey, I can only afford to spend a hundred dollars for a new client, Google ads is not going to be the right place for you.  You got to go somewhere else.

Yeah, absolutely. So Google ads is definitely something you don’t do if you haven’t got cash available. I guess is that something in your experience that makes it something just bigger MSPs do? So when they’ve got to the point where they’re experimenting with different marketing channels and they add pay per click on?

I’ve definitely seen it be a strategy for smaller ones as well. Good example, we just recently onboarded a relatively small local MSP who’s looking to Google ads as a way to generate more business. And one of the key strategy things that we’re working on with them and with some of the other MSPs we’ve worked with as well is…

Don’t try to be all things to all people. MSPs offer a lot of services, but if you advertise every service or at a high level like “IT support near me”, it’s never going to work.

Because they don’t have enough budget to test and iterate for all those different services. So we’re saying, let’s niche down. What are the things that are really working well for you right now? What’s setting you apart? What are the questions you’re solving when people come to you? And let’s hyper specifically target those things and create landing pages around that and so forth so that you can stand out from the very competitive market that they’re in.

Yeah, that makes sense. And essentially what you are saying is because cheap traffic has been gone for 15 years, you can’t muck about with pay per click, you’ve got to have a strategy for it. So let me give you a scenario. Let’s take an MSP. Say they’ve got somewhere between five, seven technicians. So you’ve got the owner, you’ve got five to seven technicians, they want 20 seat clients. So companies that have got 20 users or more, 20 devices, and they’re looking for those companies that have got an urgent need. Because they know that when someone comes in and actually the server’s been playing up for a couple of days, or they’ve had some kind of cyber security incident or there’s malware or something, it creates a level of urgency. And that urgency is obviously very good for revenue today and converting them onto being a proper managed services client. So in that instance, and let’s assume they’re in a normal, average sized town, so they’re not in LA or New York City or some crazy crazy place like that where there’s a thousand MSPs per street, it is nothing like that. It’s just a normal town, there’s perhaps 10, 20 MSPs in that town. What would you recommend as a general strategy for pay per click in a scenario like that?

First of all, like you said, identifying those urgencies. Figuring out what are the top things that are making clients right now from the other traffic sources that they’re using, convert. Be willing to make that move over. Is it like you said, is it cyber security issues? Is it, our server is down? Whatever. And then let’s identify those things and target those things very specifically. So if I’m having server issues, my server is down, I need to switch to another MSP, what am I searching on Google that indicates I have that problem and I’m looking for a solution? And then we’re going to target that very specifically, those keywords. We’re going to have ads that are very, very specifically targeted towards that and kind of capturing the urgency factor. And then super important as well, the landing pages we send people to, they have to build upon that as well.

I don’t want to just send them to my homepage that says, here’s all the things we do. I want to send them to a page that says, you have this need, we’re going to fix it today. Call us right now. We make this change. Here’s what we do. Here’s why you trust us, etc. And then go up to the races and test and see, all right, is there enough traffic for these different areas that we’re actually getting leads from it? Or if not, maybe we need to pivot and try a different service or a different need and work our way through to find the ones that are working and sticking.

Yeah, no, that sounds like a sensible strategy. I know nothing at a technical level about pay per click, but I do read sort of broad principles, and I remember reading a long time ago that if your pay per click advert, as you say, says as part of the headline, We can fix your server today, I mean, no one would promise that, but if that was the headline, then you are absolutely right, the landing page needs to repeat the same message. You are wasting your money if it just goes through to the homepage.

Actually of the pay per click I see MSPs doing, many of them immediately make that exact mistake that they’ll send this expensive paid traffic that’s just cost them $20 for a click, and they send them to their general homepage, whereas why has someone clicked this message? Because that’s the problem they’ve got, so let’s address that’s problem, let’s get them on the phone or whatever is the case. That’s really interesting.

And you mentioned about levels of traffic. I mean, if we take that normal town with 20 MSPs that we were talking about, there’s not going to be hundreds of people typing in every day server crashed or red screened or something like that. So do you have a gut feel for what’s a good level of traffic for a keyword or a key term, or do you go more on what the data tells you?

Yeah, we definitely always look at the data and we’ve got tools that we can use to forecast and see if  it looks like there’s enough traffic to justify going after this keyword. If there is a keyword where there’s so little traffic per month that Google doesn’t think it’s worth serving ads on, they’ll actually give it a label, we’ll call it low search volume. And even if somebody randomly does search that, it might not even actually show an ad because Google’s like there’s just not enough search volume.

So you’ve got to figure out that sweet spot between keywords that are still very laser focused, but that are not low search volume, and it takes some time and some work. Usually it’s a combination of using tools like Google’s keyword planner and other things to estimate traffic, and then literally just running the campaigns and seeing. That’s the beautiful thing with pay per click, if no one’s searching for something it’s not costing you money to go after it because no one’s clicking. So you can, for free, test and find out whether or not there is traffic for particular phrases or searches.

Or it’s not pay per click, it’s paperclip, as my daughter when she was about seven and she heard me talking about pay per click and she said, oh, daddy, do you want paperclips? You don’t have to pay for those. That was so sweet. Kids are like that, aren’t they?

Now let’s talk about remarketing, that kind of strategy that we just talked about there. Would you use remarketing or retargeting? And John, could you actually start by just telling us what exactly remarketing is.

Absolutely. So remarketing is basically the annoying ads that follow you around after you go look at a pair of shoes, and then you see those shoes everywhere else online. But at a bigger picture level, it’s very important and very impactful where, if I go to a website, especially if I’m researching MSP, there’s a very good chance I’m not going to reach out right away. I need to maybe talk to somebody else. I’m looking at different options, I’m thinking through things, etc. And so with the remarketing, you’re able to serve ads through Google’s display network, you can do it through Facebook and other places as well. And basically follow the people who’ve been to your website around the web and just remind them that we’re here, here’s why you should choose us. You can even get strategic and offer special incentives of, get a free demo or get something for free if you reach out today, or whatever the case may be. But you can do things to try and create urgency and bring people back who otherwise might forget about you or get distracted or go with a competitor.

Yeah. And do you recommend remarketing for people who are doing pay per click, or is it very much on a case by case basis?

95% of the time you should do remarketing. It’s very cost effective because you’re targeting a very small group of people, just people who’ve been to your website. So it’s not expensive at all to serve those ads, and it’s a very, very warm audience. So remarketing usually has the highest ROI, return on investment, of any marketing type. And now of course, you’ve already spent money get to people to your website to begin with, so you can’t just say remarketing is bringing new traffic to me. But yeah, for most businesses, for most MSPs, I strongly recommend using remarketing.

Yeah, I love it. John, let’s wrap up with one final question I’m going to ask you. Let’s assume now you’re talking to MSPs who are doing their own DIY PPC, so they’re doing it themselves, which obviously lots of people put themselves through courses on Udemy and places like that and try it out. What’s the one thing they absolutely should do, and then tell me conversely, what’s the one thing they absolutely shouldn’t do?

The one thing they should do is run search campaigns. There’s a bunch of different campaign types you can run with Google, like Google Display and different things, but search would be my number one recommendation for MSP starting out. And then I would say in most cases, the thing not to do is don’t use what they call broad match keywords, right? When you start out, that gives Google a ton of flexibility to match different types of searches to the keyword you think you’re targeting. And because of how expensive clicks are in the MSP space, like we talked about, it’s really easy to waste money. So I start with very targeted, probably what they call exact match keywords, and then work your way up from there strategically over time.

Amazing. I love it. I love when we take a strategic view to anything like this, it takes a tool, which many people will try it, spend a thousand bucks and say, this doesn’t work for me. But I think you’re right. Going in with a strategic view is a much better way of doing it. John, tell us what exactly you do to help MSPs and how can we get in touch with you?

Yeah, so we do all the advertising work for you, so we create, manage the ads, reporting, work with you on your goals, all that good stuff. We’d love to speak with any MSPs who are listening to this. You can reach out through our website, stubgroup.com for a free consultation where we can see if we’re the right fit for you.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

Christine from an MSP in Portland manages all the admin, while her husband manages all the selling and the technical work. They’ve both been listening to the podcast for around six months, and she’s noticed a bit of a recurring theme in some of the content. Her question is, why are you so insistent I hire a phone person?

Yes, I am insistent. Because I believe that a really good phone person can be a secret weapon for every MSP. Like we were talking about earlier the long-term marketing strategy for all MSPs should be to build audiences and then grow a relationship with those audiences. And this gives you a huge pool of potential future clients. You just have to remember, again, like I was saying earlier, people only buy when they’re ready to buy, but if you wait for them to tell you that they’re ready, you’ll be sitting next to a very quiet phone for a very long time.

That’s why I believe that every MSP needs to get a phone person to call these audiences all the time. And this is not cold calling. This is not telesales. This is warm calling. This is telephone intervention if you like. Your telephone person is calling them to move the relationship forward on your behalf.

So go and find yourself a back to work mom who can work two to three hours a day, two to three days a week, making outbound calls on your behalf. And remember, she’s not doing any selling. She doesn’t need to know much about technology or your business. She just needs to be interested in talking to people and listening to their answers. If she asks the right open questions, she’ll find people who are fed up with their incumbent MSP, and then she can book them in for a 15 minute discovery call with you, which is just beautiful.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Check out my guest’s website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post How to create the perfect MSP about us page appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 262 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• A mini masterclass on LinkedIn: Improve these three things on your LinkedIn profile to get people’s attention and encourage them to engage with you.
• The 3 tests to apply to new initiatives: The fear test, the regret test, and the comfort zone test – will these push you into taking the next big leap for your MSP?
• Should you start a podcast for your MSP?: Podcasts are a great way to grow relationships with an audience, but is it the right thing for your MSP?
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Stuart, from an MSP in Atlanta, has asked how much he should be paying for a content writer. Find out more on this and whether AI is a good tool to use too.

A mini masterclass on LinkedIn

It’s very easy to become complacent about social media and believe that it’s just a waste of time to a busy business owner like you who’s trying to build their MSP.

But the reality is that social media is still incredibly important.

Not all the networks, of course. I really don’t think most MSPs will get much from TikTok for some time, at least not until the generation that’s growing up with TikTok are the decision makers.

For B2B marketing in 2024 and next year as well the social media network to go for is of course…

LinkedIn – this is still the very best platform for MSPs looking for new clients, and I do highly recommend that you put in time on it every single day.

Let’s spend a few minutes now on a mini masterclass on LinkedIn, and I’ve got three things for you to look at.

The first is to improve three things in your profile. So here’s an interesting question. Based on your current profile, if you were an ordinary business owner or manager, would you want to be a client of your MSP? If not, here are three areas to spend more time on: The headline – focus on the benefit to your prospects rather than what you do. “I do IT for town businesses”, becomes “Helping town businesses grow with technology”. Then look at your headshot and don’t be cheap – pay a professional who does headshots every day and can make you look beautiful. Your about us bit – write it for your prospects, not other IT professionals. You want them to read it and think, ah, this is exactly the kind of person I want looking after my business.

Next up then, is to build your personal brand. And your personal brand is what others think about you. It’s not something you control, but it is something that you can heavily influence. And it’s based on a number of factors: the number of connections you have, the recommendations that you have, what you post about, and how often you post, the value of your contributions, the speed of your responses, and whether you do something like a LinkedIn newsletter or a LinkedIn live. Because people who are perceived as experts, they do these things. Now, like much of marketing, getting better results is about doing a series of small actions on a regular basis, for years. I spend no more than about 15 to 20 minutes a day on LinkedIn. I have a virtual assistant who does functional stuff like accepting connection requests. I just do new content and commenting.

In the early days, this felt like a waste of time, but today I have two sizable and engaged audiences – my connections and my LinkedIn newsletter subscribers. And these have only come from doing the work day in, day out for years whether I wanted to or not. Building your personal brand on LinkedIn is really no different to building your body at the gym. The magic happens over time, not on the day that you do the work. And of course, most people give up long before they see the results. Your opportunity is to be the only MSP in your area who does the opposite. You just keep putting in the work, the results are going to come.

And then the final thing to look at is ideas for content, for posts. There’s a lot of noise on LinkedIn, the same as any digital platform, so to cut through you must be creative and not just do what everyone else is doing. Here are five post ideas for you. Take each one and ask yourself, how can I put my own spin on this?: Educate them about something – don’t be technical. Celebrate a win = this could be a new client or protecting an existing client from a nasty cyber attack. Be thankful for something. Document what’s happening in your professional life. And the fifth one, occasionally share something from your private life – and no, not what you’re having for dinner, something that matters.

The 3 tests to apply to new initiatives

At the beginning of October, I was privileged to present the keynote marketing talk at the very first Scale Con in Las Vegas. Oh my goodness, that was such good fun. Because not only did I get to hang out with loads of other marketing and sales experts from around the world, but there were a couple of hundred MSPs there as well. And I spent three days meeting people I’ve known for years on forums or video calls, but never actually met in real life, as well as meeting brand new friends. And by the way, they are definitely doing a Scale Con ‘25. I will be speaking again, and you should really go to that if you can.

I tried very hard to catch a little bit of each of the speakers across the three days of the event, and I think there were well over 20 different speakers in all. And I always believe that speakers are like books. When you read a book, even if it’s something that you’ve read or studied before, there’s always a new idea that comes out of it and it’s no different when you’re listening to speakers talk. And there were some pretty awesome speakers. My brain even now is still full of ideas from that event.

Now, one of the biggest and best ideas was from Nigel Moore from The Tech Tribe, and it’s no surprise really, Nigel is just a stunningly inspirational character. And side note, it was so cool just hanging out with him, catching up with him only very briefly, but across the three days. And then on the third day, he did the final closing keynote and it was an insanely good keynote. I’m not being very humble here, but I thought mine was good, and yet I need to up my game after seeing what Nigel did.

One of the many things that he talked about is three tests that he applies to whether or not he should do something new. And these are: the fear test, the regret test, and the comfort zone test. If he’s looking at a new initiative that he’s thinking of doing, he’ll say, right, if I do this, does it scare me a little bit? Does it give me a little bit of fear? Fear is good because it shows that you’re doing something completely brand new, something you’ve never done before. If I don’t do this, will I regret that when I’m old? And then of course, the comfort zone test is will he regret not pushing himself out of his comfort zone?

So if you are looking at a new initiative for your MSP, it’s the same three tests… if you do this, will it create some fear? Will it create some regret if you look back in later life and you haven’t done it? And will it push you out of your comfort zone? I’ve had so many big ideas from that event that I’m now applying those tests to them as we speak. And I think that you can do the same, don’t you?

If you’re not asking those questions at least two or three times a year, maybe you’ve plateaued. Maybe you’re stuck in the comfort zone.

If I look back at my career, nearly 20 years of owning a business, as much as I’ve been constantly working towards stability and a business that thrives whether I’m there or not, which is a very stable business, the big leaps have come from pushing myself out of my comfort zone. And that doesn’t always mean that the big leaps are the right things to do, but certainly they kick off new actions and new directions, which can take your business to a very exciting place.

Should you start a podcast for your MSP?

It seems kind of weird to discover that podcasts have been around for 21 years. The first ever podcast started in 2003 when the audio RSS feed was created. And they’re now so popular that every year more than 500 million people listen to a podcast. So perhaps it’s inevitable that at some point you’ve wondered whether you should start a podcast for your MSP.

Let me tell you, a lot of work goes in behind the scenes to make our podcast happen every single week, but it is worth it. And if you have a passion for podcasting, and especially if you have a vertical that you serve, a podcast could be very powerful for you. My guest today is going to explore starting a podcast. He’ll tell you the classic mistakes first time podcasters make. And which is more important – presenting style, content or kit.

Hey everyone, I am Kieran MacRae and I’m a podcast marketing coach here to help you decide if you need a podcast as an MSP.

Now, we’ve got two professionals on the podcast today, Kieran. Well, we’ve got you who’s definitely a professional in doing podcasts, and I think I’ve just been winging it for enough years to say that certainly I’m a semi-professional on this. So thank you very much for joining us on the podcast today.

It’s a common question that I get from MSPs – should I start a podcast? We are coming up to or just over our fifth birthday here on this podcast. Lots of people listen to it all around the world. We have massive audiences in the UK and in the US, and inevitably for any MSP that’s ever thought, oh, I’d like to reach people, at some point they thought maybe I should do a podcast as well. And I will tell you as we go through this interview, I’ll tell you why my default answer has been probably not. It’d be really interesting to hear what your default answer is.

Before we get on to talking about podcasts and how you get them started and why they can be useful marketing tools for an MSP, just tell us a little bit about you, Kieran. So what makes you a podcast coach?

I have been growing my own podcast, which is a spooky Scottish history podcast, for four years now. That is generally spooky history. It’s been listened to all over the world. We’re coming up on, I think 8,000 downloads per episode, and that’s been going really well. And before that, I’ve been a digital marketer growing blogs and online audiences for nine years in total now. But I’ve had a lot of fun with podcasting. So I started helping people who were reaching out similar to you going, oh, should I start a podcast? Can you help me?

Yeah, I can imagine. And 8,000 downloads per episode is insane. I mean, that’s like 7,900 more downloads a week than we get, which was a joke, we have a bit more than that. But obviously we’re a very niche podcast. Yours is for anyone. Just give us the pitch for that podcast for someone that thinks that might be interesting. So you say you do spooky stories, is that like ghost stories in Scotland?

Yeah, we do the deep dive into Scotland’s history, focusing on its grizzly and mysterious past and ghost stories.

Okay, very interesting. Very interesting. I’m going to have a listen to that after we finished our interview. Now for an MSP a podcast seems like a good way to reach people. And for me, it’s our number one marketing tool. I think it’s something like nine out of 10 new members who join our MSP Marketing Edge Service say they either found us through the podcast or they got to know me through the podcast or they found out about the service. It’s an instrumental thing, and it’s something that started as a six to 12 month experiment and is now the last thing I would give up. You couldn’t drag me kicking and screaming away from the podcast. As much as it’s a lot of work, it’s a lot of hassle, and obviously it has a cost as well. In your experience with B2B, we are looking B2B here, when business owners look at doing a podcast, what are some of the mistakes or some of the wrong thinking that they jump into starting that podcast with?

It’s interesting hearing your thoughts on it because the biggest mistake with podcasts for any type, especially with B2B, is a podcast won’t help you find customers. You can’t really find an audience with a podcast. What a podcast is ideally suited for is nurturing. So once people have heard of you, they’ve maybe come to your website and then they make their way onto your podcast, they can learn more about you and your service, and you really build up a lot of trust.

Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, we have a three step lead generation and marketing strategy. I’ve talked about this on the podcast for four or five years, where you build audiences, you grow relationships, and you convert relationships. And that’s what the podcast does, it’s that middle step. It’s growing relationships. And I’ve met people in real life who’ve said, I’ve been listening to you for five years, and it’s nuts. And they know me because I’m there in their ears for 20 minutes, and obviously I’ve never met them, which is really cool. So I agree with you. It’s not a place to acquire clients, it is a place to build relationships.

One of the things that I’ve noticed with MSPs when they jump into it, is that they think it will be a quick win that they can just get set up, put a few episodes out there, do perhaps a season of 10, and that in itself is going to generate lots and lots of interest. It really doesn’t work like that, does it?

No, not at all. It is a slow burn project, but as you’re now experiencing like five years into it, you have fans. You have people who’ve really connected with you as a person, and so are connecting with you and your business, and you in their heads have become the go-to service provider for marketing.

Well, that’s the plan anyway. That certainly what be nice. So when an MSP directly says to me, shall I start a podcast? I ask them questions, and the first question I ask is, who is your audience? And normally it’s just business owners, business owners in this area or anyone with a wallet, which is my least favourite answer. And my answer is, normally don’t start a podcast, primarily because I think it’s very hard to reach an audience when your audience is everybody. And I appreciate business owners is not everyone, but that’s too big.

When an MSP says to me, well, we are in a vertical or a niche, so we want CPAs (which is a US term for accountants), or we want lawyers or we want veterinarians, or we want dentists or all of the above. It’s a much easier sell for a podcast, I think, to say, Hey, this is the technology podcast for dentists, particularly when you then, we wouldn’t do it here in the UK, but in the US you might say, this is the technology podcast for dentists in California, because obviously California is the size of the UK and certainly in people terms.

Is that your experience as well, that the more defined and refined the audience is, the easier it is for you to reach those people and influence them?

Yes, you are dead on. Whenever I’m doing coaching calls with clients, it’s always an eye roll moment for me when we have the same discussion – oh, it’s really for everyone, there’s something here for everyone. I’m like, well, you can’t reach everyone because to reach everyone, you have to spend millions of dollars on advertising to reach everyone and you just won’t manage. You’re buying a Super Bowl ad if you want to reach everyone, and realistically, your customers aren’t everyone. So yeah, absolutely. You need to nail down your audience and the more specific, the better. I think for podcasts, you could have a hundred regular listeners and build your business from that. So the more niche you can go, the better, for sure.

Yeah, absolutely. So how would you recommend an MSP get started with that niching down if they don’t have the beauty of those verticals that we were just talking about, but they’re just appealing to business owners, decision makers in a wide geographical area, is there somewhere that you would start?

Scratching your own itch is the best place to start. If you’re an MSP selling to business owners, decide which business owners you would like to talk to through your podcast because your business can still market to businesses, but for your podcast you should decide which group of people you want to talk to. If you’re going to turn up every week and have an interview with someone or provide monologue style podcasting, you have to be excited about it, because it is very easy to see people who are disingenuous when you’re listening to a podcast or watching and hearing them.

Decide what excites you, which business owners you’re excited to talk to, and then go from there.

Yeah, that’s really, really good advice. And Kieran, you won’t know this because we met briefly just before we did this interview, but I did 10 years in radio before I started my own business. So for me, this is a natural extension of a skill that I’ve had since I was a late teenager, which is really cool. But I know a lot of MSPs and in fact, this comes onto the two topics I want to talk about, which is kit and content. Well, let’s talk about three. We’ll talk about kit, content and we’ll start with presenting. A lot of MSPs when they are thinking of starting, and I know loads who have started a podcast, almost all of them have fallen by the wayside within a few episodes. The presenting is the thing that terrifies them the most. It’s no different than when they’re doing videos. So with your coaching, do you tend to do a lot of time working on presenting skills or do you focus more on content and just let that natural passion come through?

It’s more on the content side of things because primarily a marketing coach. And a lot of, or where people tend to go wrong is with the positioning of trying to reach everybody. So it’s helping my clients kind of narrow down who they’re talking to and then figuring out what their audience will want to hear. And then it usually ends up with the host getting excited about it and that passion comes through. And then for the actual delivery and the presenting, just getting in reps is about the best thing you can do. It’s hard at first, but I think I saw you’re on episode at 260 or somewhere thereabouts.

Something like that. Yeah.

After a hundred episodes, it’s going to become easier. If you just keep getting the practice in, turning up every week, it’ll start to come together.

And the reason I’m vague about which episode, is because I don’t know which episode this interview’s being played out. And that’s one of our secrets… we’ve completely systemised it and we work weeks and weeks and weeks ahead. So I’m interviewing you now, where are we, at the end of September, 2024. But this interview might not be going out till early 2025. I don’t know. I have a producer who figures all of that kind of stuff out, but we are constantly eight or nine weeks ahead of ourselves, which gets very confusing as the host, particularly when someone talks to you and says, oh, I loved your podcast this week. And I’m thinking, what was in it? What were we talking about this week?

Coming back to content, and obviously MSPs are typically very technical people, very intelligent people, very passionate about technology, and unfortunately, the audience that they want to reach, although they know technology is important to their business, it’s not a rub the thighs moment for the audience. So in an instance like that, how would you take that really techy content and not water it down, but make it relevant to the people that you want to reach?

I would say spend a lot of time thinking about specifically who you’re talking to. Although you’ll be talking to your microphone, you want to imagine a person sitting on the other side of that. It might be that your typical customer knows as much as your mom does about technology. You’re around helping her set up the sky box and everything, telling her what’s going on, and she’s sort of smiling and nodding happy it’s getting done. If you keep that in your head, you can imagine you’re sitting here telling your mom about the services you’re providing and the technology. That kind of stops you getting too in the weeds when you can imagine it doesn’t have to be your mom, but that person kind of starting to gloss over because as a self-proclaimed nerd, when you get really in the weeds talking to someone and you’ve lost them, you can see it. You see it in their eyes, they’re nodding, they’re smiling, but nothing’s going in.

Yeah, a hundred percent. I completely agree with that. And that was a tip I was taught as a radio presenter right at the beginning of my career, which is don’t talk to the a hundred thousand people that are listening. Talk to one person, picture that person. You’re having a conversation with them just as you and I are talking now. I think what’s really easy or what’s an opportunity for MSP owners is that most owners are the people out doing the selling. So they’re sitting with ordinary business owners, they’re talking to their existing clients, so they understand that glazed moment. And when ordinary people glaze, the opportunity is to take the content that you talk about with those people and the things that they’re not interested about and use that to influence your podcast as well.

Absolutely.

Okay, final subjects then Kieran, and then we’re going to talk about what you do to help MSPs.

Let’s talk about technology and kit in particular. Now, MSPs often jump straight to the kit because it’s the most exciting thing for them. We do this as an audio, but we also video it, and I’ve got a green screen set up. I’ve got a dedicated space in my home office with all the lights and the camera and the microphone. But all of that came after three and a half years. When we started, it was me sat in an industrial office unit on the edge of Milton Keynes with a £40 microphone. And then if you go back and listen to episode one, which we don’t even have videos for, it’s just audio only, you can hear the echo, you can hear my presenting style isn’t there, the format’s not quite there, all of that kind of stuff. So what do you recommend for those people who just want to dip their toe in it, try it, commit it to five or six weeks and have a go? What do you recommend that they do kit wise?

I like to keep it pretty minimalist. Although as you said, the tech is the exciting part, you don’t want to get too bogged down on it. I recommend the Samsung Q2U, it’s the microphone I’m talking to you on right now, if you like the way I sound, then you’ll enjoy it. I think it’s around $100 to $200. So it’s a little more than the basic cheapy microphone you’ll get in the supermarket, but it’s not breaking the bank either.

On top of that, your best kit is some blankets. Some blankets you can use to cover up any hard services where you decide to record. So if you’re at a desk, throw a blanket on the desk and put your microphone on top. If you’ve got a lot of empty floor without rugs, throwing some blankets around will just soften the echo. And some cushions in the corner, if you’re in a square office unit as well, that does a lot to stop the worst of the echo. Just that little bit of sound treating the room, as we call it, will do wonders and can just give you that professional sound.

Yeah, completely agree with that. In fact, one of my very good friends who still works in radio, he does radio shows for national radio stations from his under stairs cupboard, surrounded by blankets. I mean, he literally sits with a blanket next to him. He’s got one on the door, and it’s exactly as you say, there’s no professional soundproofing and you wouldn’t know that he wasn’t in a professional radio studio in London. So Kieran, thank you. Thank you for that great advice. It’s been amazing. And by the way, if you are an MSP and you decide to start your podcast, will you drop me an email and let me know because I’ll have a little listen and subscribe to you on Apple or on Spotify or something. Our email address is hello@mspmarketingedge.com, and that’s how you can reach me.

Kieran, tell us what you do to help MSPs get started with their podcasts and grow their audiences.

So I am a content creator and I am creating content at Podcast Marketing Puzzle, that’s where all my free resources are for starting and growing your podcast. I have a five day Podcast Marketing Fundamentals course, which I highly recommend that goes into the details of positioning yourself correctly, deciding who you’re talking to and how you’ll get those first listeners. I also offer consultations, so if you want some one-on-one help, then you can book an appointment and we’ll jump on a call and get you started. Get in touch with me at podcastmarketingpuzzle.com.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

This week’s question is from Stuart in Atlanta. He’s feeling pretty good about the marketing he’s doing for his MSP, including getting the look of his website revamped. However, in terms of the content, his question is – how much should I pay for a writer?

Although I have a full-time writing and content creation team on the MSP Marketing Edge, we do sometimes use freelance writers to help create the ton of content that we produce every single week. So as a guide, my all-time best and most efficient freelance copywriter charges me £30 an hour, which is about $40. We don’t have a contract, although I have verbally committed to around about 13 hours of writing every month, and the bill of course varies each month based on the time that she tracks.

Now, I believe that this is the best way to keep writers on their toes. I can walk away at any point if she has a couple of average months or if I feel that she’s overbilling me in some way. You’ve got to remember, there are a million writers and only a small number of writing gigs, especially gigs that go on month after month after month. So it really is a buyer’s market.

The other thing to bear in mind is that AI has made life much more difficult for writers. Now, AI can’t produce fantastic content but it can produce good basic content that can be shaped and edited by humans. So maybe that’s a route that you go down, you get a human to put a good prompt in, AI to do the bulk of the work, and then you pay a writer to reshape that, finish it off, and make it perfect for your MSP.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest Kieran MacRae on LinkedIn and check out his website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post A mini masterclass on LinkedIn for MSPs appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

The post Why MSPs should add new LinkedIn connections every single weekday appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

This is the best marketing idea I got from this year's ScaleCon24. If you went, what was yours?

Last week I was speaking at the inaugural three day ScaleCon24 at Las Vegas.

WHAT AN EVENT! I've read much of the feedback online, and 97.4% of it is highly positive. I've agreed to speak again at ScaleCon25 in Dallas and know several MSPs who've already bought their tickets.

Anyway, I was honoured to deliver the marketing keynote at the end of this year's day one, where I showed a few hundred MSPs how doing just 90 mins of marketing every weekday builds up over years into having an EPIC lifestyle.

I also met tons of lovely people - including many members of my MSP Marketing Edge, and some industry giants. Many are Zoom friends I met in real life for the first time.

It was listening to talks from two marketing legends that inspired the new MSP marketing tactic I want to tell you about today. Because it's one you should start using.

First off, Nate Freedman of MSP Sites spoke. Here we are...

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Nate and I are the same height! At 5'7" and surrounded by tall IT people, this is a rare thing for me...

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For years I've been saying that the best CTA - Call To Action - on your website is to show your live calendar, and encourage leads to book a 15 min video call with you.

Nate agrees with me. In his talk he said that someone who is ready to book a call will be motivated enough to fill in a short data capture form first.

This makes perfect sense. A lead who's ready to talk is unlikely to be put off by giving a little data to access your live calendar.

Data capture -> Live calendar

 

And then Kevin Clune of MSP Growth Hacks said something in his talk that added another dimension to this (and you can download his slide deck to see all of his great advice)...

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This is me and Kevin in the Las Vegas High Roller at Kevin's private networking event. I would say he's standing on a box, but you can see his feet...

The post The best MSP marketing tactic I learned at ScaleCon24 appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 257 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• What the yellow car game teaches MSPs about marketing: There’s a part of our brain called the Reticular Activating System which acts as a sensory filter. You might see and hear everything, but you only perceive it if it’s relevant to you.
• Here’s a simple marketing cadence that your MSP can swipe and adapt: How to build a marketing system around repeatable daily, weekly and monthly tasks that will work for any MSP.
• How offering custom development boosts client retention for MSPs: Retaining a client is so much easier than to getting a new one. Is this a potential gap in your MSP’s offering?
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Dale, from northeast England, has a website question for his MSP – Should I buy a website domain ending in .io?

What the yellow car game teaches MSPs about marketing

You must often have conversations with ordinary business owners or managers and be gobsmacked just how little they’ve absorbed about stuff from our world, such as cyber security breaches that are in the news or critical updates that need to happen. Have you ever wondered why that is? It’s not just that they don’t care, it’s actually more that their brain has been trained not to tell them about it. You see, the brain has a kind of bodyguard that stops information from getting in and it actually explains why most people don’t perceive your MSP’s marketing.  Good news – there is a way around this bodyguard, and the easiest way for me to explain that is to tell you about the yellow car game.

Every time we travel in the car together, my 14-year-old child and I play a really cool game, when we see a yellow car, we have to punch the other person on the arm and the first one to land a punch wins that round. I’m very pleased to tell you that I am the current yellow car champion. Now, this game makes long journeys just whiz by, believe me. And what’s really fun is playing the game with other passengers in the car because my daughter and I absolutely slaughter them. And no wonder because our brains have been trained to actively look for yellow cars, whereas of course our passengers are seeing yellow cars but not perceiving them.

This is because the bodyguard that stops information getting into their brain has not yet been trained to look for yellow cars. Now, this bodyguard has a name, it’s called the reticular activating system, and it has lots of functions, but the most important thing from a marketing point of view is that it acts as a sensory filter. If you had to consciously deal with all of the information coming in from your five senses, you would very quickly go insane. So instead that information goes through the Reticular Activating System, which acts as a relevance filter.

For the small number of things that are relevant to you, it allows you to perceive them. Everything else you might see it or hear it, but you don’t perceive it. And this is why when you go to, let’s say a new town, you see the break/fix shops, you see the vans belonging to other MSPs, because as far as your reticular activating system is concerned they are relevant to you. But you don’t see the dentists and you don’t see the lawyers, unless of course you are marketing to those kind of people, because they are not relevant you. When you understand that everything you do and say to anyone goes through their reticular activating system, and especially your marketing, then you get a blinding realisation why people just don’t seem to take in the things you’re trying to say to them.

And in understanding how the reticular activating system works, there is the clue of how to beat it. Because if the filter is based on relevance, then you have to make the marketing seem more relevant to them.

This is super easy if you operate in a niche and you want to, let’s say, sell to lawyers – you just put the word lawyer in your marketing. Yeah, it really is as simple as that.

It’s a little bit harder with a general audience, but even here you can make your marketing seem more relevant to them. Use your town or city name or use the phrase business owner. As many business owners relate to that.

Anytime you’re doing any marketing at all, writing any words or creating any images, even down to a simple post on LinkedIn, you must be asking yourself this – How do I beat their brain’s bodyguard? How do I wave a massive flag at the reticular activated system to say, Hey, look at me, this is really relevant to your owner’s brain, so please let them perceive this. I think the secret to this is being very, very clear on who your audience is and being very clear what interests them and what doesn’t.

Here’s a simple marketing cadence that your MSP can swipe and adapt

One of the ways to make marketing easy for your MSP is to turn it into a regular system where marketing tasks happen on a specific cadence. Essentially, instead of your marketing being haphazard and relying on you remembering to do it, you turn it into a habit. Let me tell you a really robust cadence that will work for any MSP.

So what is a cadence? Well, it’s a rhythm that you get into, critical if you want to make sure that something happens on a regular basis like your marketing. Far too many MSPs, focus their marketing around one-off campaigns. These can be great, but only if you run them regularly.

You’ve heard that you need seven to 10 touchpoints with a prospect before they’re ready to talk to you, right? Well, you also need to be in front of them at the right time, the exact moment they are ready to think about leaving their incumbent MSP.

That’s really hard to do with one-off campaigns, especially since there’s a ton of work to get the campaign off the ground and then it’s over and it’s too easy to delay the next ton of work to get the next campaign running.

This is why I recommend most MSPs focus on setting up a marketing system. In fact, our MSP Marketing Edge is based around a powerful three-step lead generation system. So here’s a simple marketing cadence you can use in your MSP. It’s based around a series of repeatable tasks that can help you to build multiple audiences, grow a relationship with them, and find a moment they are most open to talking to you, to convert that relationship.

These tasks can be implemented by your team or marketing freelancers working for you. So this starts off with some daily tasks. Daily you’d build your audience by making a number of connection requests on LinkedIn, say 10 of those, and then you’d collect the email address of new connections to add to your email database. Another daily job will be to build relationships by adding content to LinkedIn and commenting on other people’s posts. And another daily task will be to make follow-up phone calls to all of these new people that you are meeting.

Let’s do some weekly tasks. Weekly, I believe you should be sending a LinkedIn newsletter and send it on the same day each week. Also weekly, send an educational email to your database. That’s why you are building up those email connections that we were talking about earlier.

Then let’s go to some monthly tasks. I believe monthly you should run a marketing campaign, but do one every month aimed at your hottest prospects. Don’t send a campaign to a prospect every month. They might get two or three a year, but every month you can target some prospects with a campaign. And monthly you can ship a printed newsletter to your hottest prospects. That you can do every single month if you wanted to. Which of these repeatable marketing tasks do you think would work best for your MSP?

How offering custom development boosts client retention for MSPs

The idea of offering custom software development to your clients might be the worst thing you’ve ever heard, because that means managing expectations, crazy complicated development plans, and of course developers. But my special guest today believes you have to, and not just as a profit centre, but as a client retention strategy.

Today’s guest believes your clients see software development just like they see websites. To them, it’s all just technology and they would rather buy it from you, but if they can’t, maybe they’ll go somewhere else for it.

Hi, I’m George Toursoulopoulos, CEO of Synetec.

George, thanks for coming onto the podcast. You are perhaps the best example of why I always ask our guests to introduce themselves so I never have to learn how to pronounce difficult surnames. It’s a delight to have you on here. You were recommended by two or three separate people to come on and talk about a very interesting subject – why MSPs should offer software development.

We’re going to be exploring that in just a few minutes time, and I know that you believe very strongly that for client retention reasons, every MSP should be offering software development. Let’s first of all, just go back a few steps and let’s learn a little bit about you. So tell us what you do now, but more importantly, how did you get into software development?

That’s a great question. I mean, I’ve always been in software development, I studied it, so my background is in that. But I suppose what’s been interesting is I’ve worked for clients and then found what was being done in terms of how they could get it right, how they could get it wrong. So it was always a natural progression to start my own company and help them get it right, so to speak.

And obviously you’re running your own software development company now. Is this something you’ve always done or have you worked for other people doing the same thing?

When I first got out of uni, I was working for quite a big outsourcing company from the states, EDS, for quite a few years. Sort of learned my trade there, so to speak. And then I founded a company actually over in South Africa, which I sold and came over to the UK. And after a couple of years consulting, I started up Synetec in 2009. So we’ve been running for about 15 years now.

And over those 15 years, of course, the whole concept of software development is completely different, isn’t it?

Absolutely. I mean, it’s changed. It’s been huge. I mean, the way development is done and how companies are comfortable doing development themselves and not to mention Covid, Covid made a massive difference in terms of working remotely and how comfortable people were with that. So we’ve had a couple of little industrial revolutions within the software development business over the last 15 years.

I bet you have. And just before we talk about how MSP should be using software development, as you look at the rise of the AI models and things like no-code coding, both of which are concepts I don’t really understand a huge amount about, but I do read about them as I’m sure lots of ordinary business owners do. How do you see software development changing over the next 15 years or so?

Everyone’s talking about AI, right? I mean that’s almost, I wouldn’t say a given, but it’s obviously very exciting. The precursor is the data though. So the interesting thing is there’s a ton of work that has to be done structuring and cleaning up that data. And one of the interesting things is everyone wants clean data, but no one wants to pay for it. So I think that’s a massive blocker. We’ve got to figure out how to be able to do that properly before then the AI adoption is really going to grow and pick up pace.

Yes, I think that’s a fair thing to say. So let’s look now at MSPs and software development. And they’re not really two things that a number of years ago I would’ve put together. But in fact, you are not just the first person, you’re one of a growing number of people that have said to me, actually these days, we believe that software development is a service that MSPs should be offering. Can you give us some examples of why it’s so important for MSPs to at least be able to have those conversations with their clients?

It’s definitely something that’s changing and becoming more intense over the last year, certainly. I mean, for us, we work closely with quite a number of MSPs. And we’ve had a couple of times where clients have left their MSP, even though the MSP is doing really well in different ways and really giving them great service, but they’re leaving them because the need that they have, that crosses over to where they see the MSP should be offering those services, their MSP is saying, no, we don’t do that. And then what happens is the client then says, well, I’m going to go somewhere where I’m going to be serviced.

So I think that as a business owner, I’d say that’s the number one reason for us to do anything, isn’t it? Client retention. How much more easy is it to retain a client than to get a new one?

So we’ve got to be able to look after our clients. I think that’s something that’s really on the increase. I understand why that is, but the point is it’s definitely on the increase.

So I imagine from the ordinary business owner or manager’s point of view, they see software development as an IT thing, and I’m putting that in kind of little speech marks in the same way that they probably see their website as an IT thing. We of course know that websites and tech support and cyber security and software development are all completely different areas. And from the MSPs that you’re working with when they first start talking to you about offering software development, are they nervous because they don’t see it something within their skillset?

Yeah, very much so. And I think the challenge with software development is it often gets a bad rap because it can be badly done. And I think anything that’s service orientated, I mean look at the building industry, how many people actually say – I’ve got a great builder, everything was on time and on budget and was wonderful? I think software development falls into that because the requirements aren’t static and clear upfront. So I think MSPs generally have two main concerns. Number one is, we don’t want a happy customer turning into an unhappy customer and there’s potential risk there, and two, we don’t really know how to do it, it’s a completely different business line.

I think that kind of sums it up for me, but I think the bigger challenge that almost overrides those is that the crossover between development infrastructure is so big that you cannot properly support a client if you don’t know what they’re going to do with that infrastructure when it comes to the development. And I think fundamentally for companies that are perhaps under-skilled with not just plain software development, but with the sort of the DevOps roles around the development team, what then happens is something that an MSP is provisioned for a customer is now sort of bundled under them. They go, well, we got this stuff off you, but we’re not using it well, we’re wasting money, this is your fault. Or we need this and now you can’t do it for us. If that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, that makes perfect sense. And when we’re talking about development, are we talking about you as the MSP, whether you do it in-house or whether you outsource it to a company such as yours? Are we talking about taking bespoke development that they’ve had done elsewhere, perhaps some kind of legacy application they’ve had built, or are we talking about brand new development or is it a bit of a mix of both?

I think it’s a mix of both. When MSPs get new clients by a client turning around and saying, okay, we’re going to move from on-prem, let’s say to public cloud. That’s a typical entry point from my conversations with the companies we work with. And at that point, if there’s any bespoke applications, one of the key parts of that migration or concerns is going to be how are we going to migrate this onto the public cloud from our on-prem service? Typically speaking, the MSP will say, well, we’ll give you the infrastructure and you sort that out. So it’s a differentiator when winning completely new clients, that’s the one side. When they’re an existing client, you have a position of trust, almost a trusted advisor, which is fantastic. That’s the position you want to be in, so you can really help look after them.

So when they need something brand new that you just mentioned, they want to know, who do you recommend for this? You want to be able to give a good recommendation if you can’t do it yourself or you want to have a good partner. So you keep that in your ecosystem. Alternatively, if they have something internally and they perhaps have their own development function. Typically speaking, I’m not talking about the very large institutions. I’m, let’s say, talking about a company that has, let’s say less than 50 developers. So a medium size to small size enterprise, they’re going to be missing key skill sets. And specifically if they’re giving the MSP the infrastructure support role, they will be missing those roles that stereotypically used to work within the development team to help them give the development team what they have. So that gap is there now.

And that’s obviously an opportunity there to fill that gap. George, final question for you. Tell us about either the biggest headache or the worst project or the oldest legacy code you’ve worked on or some kind of funny story from your career or something that you looked at initially and thought, we’re never going to be able to cope with this

Funny, this will reduce you to tears or laughter, you have to pick one or the other. I think typically speaking, we’ve actually got a client that has undergone quite a large project transformation where they used to have four or five different PCs all connecting to this main server, all running these separate applications that were then pumping data into the main database. And these guys were running an absolute fortune in terms of it was a hedge fund that was running a huge amount of money. And if one of these PCs were ever switched off, the whole thing would just break. And one day, apparently the cleaner came in and one of the PCs was unplugged, so everything didn’t work the next day. I mean funny, but also really concerning. Anyway, we helped them transform and get away from that kind of environment. But the stories you see like that and how much sometimes sticky tape and wires holding everything together is quite amusing,

And it does make you wonder how many more of those situations are still out there just waiting for someone to come along and take it, fix it, and do it before the cleaner switches everything off. Tell us a little bit about Synetec. What do you do for MSPs and what’s the best way to get in touch with you, George?

So we work with MSPs to help them fill that gap in infrastructure. We help them service their clients when they have a development function. We help them procure the infrastructure that they need, but also set it up correctly and make it part of their internal processes. So we fill that gap between the MSPs and the internal development teams. We also help them when it comes to data management and structuring of data, putting data links and databases together. So we have quite a good relationship with multiple MSPs that we can help in that way. And the best way to get hold of me is just email me gtours@synetec.co.uk, or you can go on to our website, www.synetec.co.uk or just message me on LinkedIn.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

This week’s question comes from Dale, who is based in the northeast of England, and is soon going to change the name of his MSP. His question is – Should I buy a website domain ending in .io?

Ideally, no, because on the whole people like us are more comfortable with io or other unusual top level domains because we see them all the time. The question to ask – Is your target audience, i.e. ordinary people, comfortable with .io or will it confuse them? Because confusion kills sales. Where you can, stick to .com or one specific to your country, such as .co.uk.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription.
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn.
• Connect with my guest George Toursoulopoulos on LinkedIn and check out his website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post What the yellow car game teaches MSPs about marketing appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 253 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

• MSP owners: Why do we make our lives so hard?: Business owners often hinder their own success by running a marathon while carrying an anchor, meaning they knowingly hold themselves back through overwork, limited thinking, or mismanagement.
• The most powerful MSP marketing question to ask any lead: Asking this is a great way to prioritise your leads and create a follow-up list for the future.
• How to do marketing within the CIS security framework: One of your challenges is making ordinary business owners and managers realise how important good security is. Find out how you can achieve this using the Center for Internet Security controls. My guest, Zach Kromkowski, explains all.
• Paul’s Personal Peer Group: Sean, who runs as MSP in Houston, wants to learn more about AppSumo and what it has to offer.

MSP owners: Why do we make our lives so hard?

You and I as business owners, we are in this for the long run, right? Whether this is your first year in business or your 30th, you know that owning a business is a marathon and not a sprint. So that being said, why do we constantly make life hard for ourselves? Far too many MSPs decide to run the marathon while carrying an anchor. It’s nuts. Let’s talk about why we do this and how to give ourselves a much easier life, yet still achieving the things that we want from our business.

So I was listening to this book a few months back. It was written by the guy who built up the Burger King chain back in the 1950s and 60s if you’re interested. It’s called The Burger King. It was, okay, not the most instructive business book in the world, but I do believe you can get huge value from any book as long as you get one big idea from it. Do you agree with me on that? Anyway, my big takeaway from this book was a phrase I’ve never heard before, but I instantly understood what it meant.

Business owners make life hard for themselves by running a marathon while carrying an anchor.

And I completely relate to this, do you? It means that even though we know it’s not a sprint race and we know we have to keep going for years and years and years, we seem to noble ourselves in as many ways as we can. Perhaps it’s by continuing to work 60 hours a week despite being surrounded by very competent staff who are actually looking for more things to do. Or perhaps it’s by not taking enough vacation, enough holiday time each year, which means that when we do take a break, we are utterly exhausted. Or perhaps it’s by thinking too small.

There are many ways that we hold ourselves back and don’t think this is just an MSP thing. All business owners everywhere in all sectors do exactly the same thing. But the thing is, the clues to long-term success are there if you go looking for them. Just listen back to any of the fantastic interviews that I’ve done in the MSP Marketing Podcast over the last five years, and you’ll hear very, very successful people talking about how they broke out of the “hell phase” of running a business, where you’re trapped doing 60 hours a week, and they entered a new phase where they’re working primarily on the business rather than in it. And often the massive growth of their business starts to happen at exactly that moment. And this is not really a surprise – there is a direct correlation.

So let me ask you – maybe it’s worth you pausing this podcast or this YouTube video to ask yourself this question – what do you do to hold yourself back? What’s the anchor that you are carrying during your marathon? The first step is to identify it, label it as what it is, and then dedicate yourself to finding ways to eliminate it. Maybe it’s a mindset issue. Maybe it’s a workload issue, maybe it’s a resourcing issue. You can’t fix these things until you know what the problem is. Then you can take proactive action to eliminate the problem. Let me finish with one more quote from that book, and I’m paraphrasing here, but this is the right sentiment. The greatest gift we can give ourselves as business owners is positivity, and that comes out of taking action against our problems. I love that. Don’t you? Come on then. Let’s do it. You and me. Let’s take some action.

The most powerful MSP marketing question to ask any lead

I recommend all MSPs focus their marketing efforts on building multiple audiences of people on LinkedIn and email, growing a relationship with those audiences through content marketing and then converting them from leads to clients. And the easiest way to do that is to offer them a 15 minute video call with you.

It’s a very low commitment first step that gives you the opportunity to ask them about their favourite subject, which is of course, themselves and their business. And then you can try to set up a proper, in real life, sales meeting. Now this video call is something you should offer on your website, offer it on your LinkedIn, offer it everywhere that you engage with people who are potential future prospects. And the call should consist of lots of open questions from you exploring them, their business, their needs, their wants, their fears and their desires.

The more they talk, the less you talk, then the more engaged they will be. But there’s also a very leading question that you absolutely must ask. They’ll give you a one word answer that will reveal exactly how likely they are to become a client. Here’s the question…

On a scale of 1 to 10 – where 1 is terrible and 10 is world class – how do you rank your current IT support company?

Ask this question and then go quiet. Give them space to think about it and answer it. You can colour grade this lead based on their answer because you’ll instantly know if they’re a great prospect or just a tyre kicker.

If they answer ten, nine or eight, then they’re a red lead and are very happy with their incumbent MSP, so add them to your email list, wish them well and call them back in a year to see if anything has changed.

If they answer seven or six, then they are an amber lead and there’s a high level of dissatisfaction with their incumbent MSP. Test if this is short-term and happiness, maybe a support call this week wasn’t handled very well, or whether it’s actual proper long-term dissatisfaction. If it is, then they could go on to be a super hot prospect for you.

And if they answer five or below, then they are a green lead. They are desperately unhappy and they’re very likely to take action on this unhappiness at some point. They are yours for the taking. So dedicate all of your sales attention on them.

By the way, for answers of seven or below, use this follow-up question to get some understanding – Can I ask what made you give them that score? Your lead may then tell you exactly what has created their unhappiness. And this is a very powerful thing to know in the sales process that you’re about to start with them.

How to do marketing within the CIS security framework

I know how important cyber security is to you and what you do on a daily basis, and I also know that one of your challenges is trying to make ordinary business owners and managers realise how important good security is and how they need to invest in it. My special guest has a fantastic approach to this, using the framework laid out by the Center for Internet Security. Let’s explore how he uses that and how you can do the same in your MSP. This interview will show you that the CIS framework is perfect to build your marketing around.

I’m Zach Kromkowski, co-founder to Senteon manage endpoint hardening and first time security entrepreneur.

And congratulations for being a first time security entrepreneur. It’s awesome, right, isn’t it, running your own business. And also congratulations for coming in here on the show and we are going to talk today about how you can use cyber security frameworks actually as a marketing tool. So not just there to keep your clients safer, but to actually attract new people and to upsell your existing clients. Now, before we talk about that, Zach, let’s have a little bit of your history. So talk us through what you’ve been doing and what made you start this business.

Yeah, I mean, this is a long answer, but I will do my best to keep it concise. So security is ultimately something that everyone talks about, but we realise no one really knows where to start. And my co-founding team is actually a team of four. And when we were in university, we were told to configure our assets and do all these traditional best practices for security posture. But when we went to the real world, we realised it wasn’t happening. So why in school were we being told you have to configure your asset, you have to set it to the correct state, but it didn’t happen. So we realised there was a gap from what we learned in school versus the workforce today. And that gap made us question, why isn’t this happening. Is school wrong? Is this not important or is corporate wrong, why aren’t they doing this? What is that challenge. And that’s ultimately what we sought to figure out, what is that challenge as to why people don’t prioritise configuring their assets.

And what was the answer that you stumbled across?

That’s probably a good leading point for me to answer. So the challenges we found were really a few things. The first and foremost, if we’re talking about Microsoft devices, it simply put that Intune group policy and PowerShell scripts are too difficult to keep up to date, let alone doing it once. But the number one challenge that we identified was simply that there’s an innate fear of changing a setting on a machine that is being used because it might break something. It could break something on the end client end, or it could break one of the workflows you have internally at your MSP. And that is the key focus that Senteon really focused on to develop a learning mode that determines is this safe or is this not safe? And the goal here is to make the optimal solution that can change settings without causing disruption.

Got it. That’s a good pitch and what we’ll do is we’ll talk about Senteon and what it does and how people can have a look at it and try it out – we’ll talk about that towards the end of the interview. It’s always a good place to pop that, but that is a great pitch. What I want to really talk about is how to use a security framework as a marketing tool. Now, I never assume that every single person listening to this podcast and we have thousands and thousands of listeners, I never want to assume that everyone understands everything because we live in a very complex and a very big world. So you are going to talk about the CIS framework. Can you explain that to me, remembering that I’m not a technical person and I think if you can explain it well in a way that I understand, then everyone who listens to this podcast or watches the YouTube videos is going to understand it as well.

Absolutely. So CIS simply stands for Center for Internet Security. It’s a global non-profit that is dedicated to increasing cyber security readiness and response. They are most famous for what’s called the CIS controls, and they have 18 of these controls. What’s interesting about this is

they’re not just lists of things that make up security – they’re a prioritised list of 18 things you can do to increase your cyber security defences.

So it’s a step-by-step playbook on how if an MSP has never done security, it gives you step one of what you should focus on. If it’s a mature MSP who’s already offering security, it gives you a roadmap of, okay, let’s actually check what am I doing today and am I meeting this 18 point list.

I’ll give an example as well. Control 1.1 is knowing your hardware asset inventory, why is this control 1 or 0.1? Well if you don’t know your hardware assets, there’s probably no way you’re going to know what you need to secure. So knowing your asset inventory is literally control 1. Control 2 is software asset inventory then control 3 is data protection and control 4, to reel it back to exactly where Senteon lives is all about configuring your assets. You can’t configure your assets if you don’t know your assets. So that’s really, in a nutshell, what CIS is at a high level.

They do go way further than just this 18 point list with things called implementation groups, which is the prioritised minimum requirements of what to do. For example, these 18 controls. Some of them might take a little bit more understanding of security. So they also have implementation groups that say, Hey, start here.

The other piece that they have that’s really cool is called the CIS benchmarks. And this is a prescriptive list of do this to this setting. Take for example, machine inactivity, timeout, take that setting and best practices set it to 1500 seconds. So they provide one-to-one recommendations on how to secure something very specifically. That, in a nutshell, is CIS.

And where it gets really exciting – and I’ll let you ask a follow-up question, Paul, you know this is something I’m very passionate about – to take this a step further – and I’ve listened to the other episodes – not everyone is going to know what CIS is, especially your end clients.  So why do you want to align to a framework that your end clients, the people you’re selling to, aren’t going to know about? And the reason is this, CIS organisation takes their recommendations and they will actually crosswalk it to the framework you do care about. So whether this is ISO, DORA or in the US CMMC, NIST, there’s all these crosswalks that they take and say here’s our recommendation and here’s the requirement it meets in this recommendation or in this framework. So that’s really in a nutshell, CIS at a high level.

Well, I think you explained that brilliantly. So thank you for that, Zach. In fact, you’ve genuinely added something to my knowledge base there. My follow up question is of course about the end clients. So the ordinary business owners and managers that MSPs are trying to reach, and I’m guessing they’re not going to know about CIS and therefore an MSP coming in saying, Hey, I’ve got these 18 things. That’s not really something that’s going to appeal to them. So how do you recommend the MSPs take that CIS information and turn it into a framework, something useful that ordinary business owners and managers will understand?

Absolutely. So there’s two ways to look at this. If you’ve not offering security today, there’s kind of one way there. But if you’re already offering security today, there’s another way, and I’m going to lean into a previous episode of yours I caught, all about content marketing. So this list, I did say 18 controls. What I didn’t mention is there’s actually sub controls, substeps within these 18, and they add up to a total of 153 different controls. If you’re an MSP just starting out and you’re looking, how can I make this resonate with the customer. Well, the first choice goes back to my initial answer. You don’t necessarily talk about CIS. You use the CIS crosswalks to talk about the regulation and the requirements they do care about. That’s the easy answer. Now, talking from a demand generation perspective and marketing and making that ROI, taking the sub controls and the main controls, so a total of 153 things, you can create content around each of these.

Why does this matter? You’re positioning your MSP as the subject matter expert on frameworks without even really doing too much additional work. So I gave the examples of controls 1 through 4, we’ll stick on control 4. So talking about needing to configure assets. Well, we can make a content or a blog post or a graphic or just a LinkedIn post saying, Hey, something we do at MSP name is we focus on configuring your assets. This aligns to step 4 of this framework. So it’s now almost like a content roadmap of areas you can begin to slowly educate your customers on and say, Hey, this is why we’re doing the things when I talk to you or when you reach out to me, you’re not only going to hear the vendors I use or the security I provide, but you’ll actually give them contextual understanding. And it’s no longer you saying you’re doing this, it’s you’re doing this because this authoritative governance body told me to do this. Talk about protecting yourself and your business because it’s not just, oh, my engineer thinks I should do this. I’m following best practices from a respected source to guide me in supporting you.

And do you think that actually is an advantage to be able to say to a prospect, Hey, we take all of the best practice that’s laid out by this world organisation, but we’ve done all the hard work, we’ve set out our own roadmap from that, and essentially this is the best level of protection that you’ll be able to get for your business because we are going to work through this framework together. Do you think that works?

Yeah. I mean, let’s put it in a different perspective – I always try to relate things, this is something I’m personally trying to be better at – let’s just talk about getting your car worked on by a mechanic. If you go to this general mechanic shop who historically only works on cars he knows, but he goes, yeah, I could probably fix your car. I work on cars like this, but I know how things work. I can look at your car and I’m going to know what to do. He’s not an expert at your exact car model. He’s not an expert on all of your internals, but he’s worked on cars and he’s like, yeah, I can fix this. I can make it work. And maybe you do drive off that day and it works fine. But going into that conversation with that mechanic, would I rather have the mechanic saying, oh yeah, I specialise on this framework or this type of car. I specialise on these internals because it’s all I do day in, day out. Or would you rather go with the person who’s kind of a catchall does whatever? So when you present as an MSP to your prospects, to your customers, you can now say, Hey, we are not the experts. I understand. I do not know everything about security. If that’s what you’re looking for, I’m not your guy and the guy who says they are, they’re definitely not your guy. What I do to differentiate myself as an MSP is I leverage the best practices from documented standards, and this is how I facilitate the accomplishment of this roadmap for your business. So now you’re leaning into something that’s already globally accepted and positioning yourself with an existing brand.

Yeah, I love this. I guess all of this is just a Google search away anyway, right? You almost want the prospect looking it up and saying, oh yes, this CIS stuff, oh, okay, it is a big deal, it’s a global standard, etc, etc. And yes, I can see the power of essentially positioning yourself as we’re always going to be up to date because we follow these standards. We don’t miss anything because we’ve got this framework. But as you said, not everyone can be experts in absolutely everything. Zach, this is really good stuff. Thank you so much for this. We are definitely going to have to have you back on the show in the future,  because I can tell you’ve got loads to talk about with using security as a marketing tool, which is just brilliant. Tell us a little bit more about Senteon, what is it, what does it do, who should get it, and what’s the best way for us to get in touch with you and try it out?

The best way to get in touch is I’m hilariously active on LinkedIn. That’s my go-to source. Obviously I have the YouTube channel and a podcast, but to really give the behind the scenes on Senteon, we have the same methodology that I just proposed you leverage from your MSP to end clients. I have the same methodology as a vendor servicing MSPs. So that methodology is – hey, we remediate, we change settings on your workstation, on your server, on your browser. We’re changing over a thousand settings – Now, a company where maybe you have heard of us, maybe you haven’t heard of us. If you haven’t heard of me, and I say, we’re going to change a thousand settings. Do you want me to do that to your business… let alone your clients? Probably not. But when I say we’re going to change these thousand settings to align to a standard that exists and is proven, now do you trust me a little bit more? So I leverage this same best practice of putting my brand with a best practice brand that I’m encouraging you to do. Why would I encourage you to do it? Because it works. That’s what we do and it’s proven successful for us. So why can’t this translate to the MSP to end client level? So that’s exactly it. And Paul, you’re going to have to repeat your four questions. I got like two of them.

That’s fine. I think you’ve done a great pitch there for what Senteon does. Tell us just what’s the best way to get in touch with you and to try the product out.

To get in touch with us, connect on LinkedIn, we do have our website. Those are always best ways. And if you do want to learn more about the settings in specific that I’m talking about, I’ve said the word thousand more settings a few times today, but if you really want to understand about this, there’s a webinar series that I host actually with CIS so you can trust it. It’s literally with the authoritative body I’ve been talking about, and we have a PowerPoint slide per setting. So I’ve actually rewritten, I think to date about 700 different settings. I’ve rewritten them myself from a security point of view, from an easier to digest point of view. If you don’t have a security background, if you’re just starting out, I’ve rewritten all of these and I hold a weekly webinar series with CIS on my YouTube channel on LinkedIn, so you can connect with us there.

If you are looking to actually test out Senteon and see where your current configuration sits, which I will note, if you’re like everyone else we work with, by default, when you get a Microsoft Box, you’ll have 20% of your machine configured correctly. 20% in quantity terms is about 70 of 500 settings. It’s not a lot done correct by default. And Paul, we can have a whole other conversation of secure by design and why people don’t distribute products with a secure by design mindset, which they should. But you are welcome to toss a website inquiry to our contact us page, mention Paul, I will happily provide a hundred free assessments to anyone who mentions Paul. That’s my gift to anyone who lets me come onto the show and share our mission to build better awareness about defensive security and making security marketable. It should be a revenue item for you. It should be generating you profits. There’s no reason it can’t and it’s a good service. So mentioned you watched us on Paul’s webinar show, and you’ll get a hundred free assessments. You’ll get a full presentation and everything you need, these reports that you can get completely free will be internal usage, external usage, and they would literally have a button to export as PDF and have a whole little marketing campaign that you can distribute to your clients.

And give us your website address, Zach.

 Yep. So that is going to be Senteon.co.

Paul’s Personal Peer Group

This week we have Sean from an MSP in Houston, Texas, and his question is about something he’s confused about… “What is this AppSumo thing that I keep hearing about?”

Okay, stay calm and keep your hand closely on your wallet because AppSumo is going to prise it open and extract cash from it on a regular basis. What is it? Well, think Groupon. You remember Groupon, don’t you? Groupon, but for tech-savvy entrepreneurs and business owners, so people like you and me.

AppSumo is the place where new apps and other clever new businesses go to grab a whole load of customers in one go. In return, they offer a killer deal to AppSumo’s database, which is estimated to be more than a million people. One such great offer from my goodness, I think it was late 2020, was a lifetime deal on Publer, the social media scheduling platform. Of course, that’s been sold out for years and Publer has now become a mainstream tool.

Sometimes you buy a deal and the software turns out to be not quite as good as the marketing said it was. But that’s okay because with most deals, you can get a refund. Now, I’ve bought and kept more than 40 deals since April 2013. Yes, I did check the date and the number of deals, and I do love getting their regular email with new deals. And I think you might too, just be very, very careful. AppSumo is very good at getting you to buy software that you never actually use. You think you’re going to use it, but you never actually do.

Mentioned links

• This podcast is in conjunction with the MSP Marketing Edge, the world’s leading white label content marketing and growth training subscription
• Join me in MSP Marketing Facebook group.
• Connect with me on LinkedIn
• Mentioned booked: The Burger King by Jim McLamore. 
• Connect with my guest Zach Kromkowski on LinkedIn and check out the Senteon website.
• Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post MSP owners: Why do we make our lives so hard? appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to Episode 249 of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This week…

How to grade the quality of your MSP’s leads: I encourage you to prioritise leads to focus on prospects truly worth your time. (jump to)

If I suggested you spent 80% of your time marketing your MSP, would you think I was nuts?  I believe that to grow your MSP and secure its future, you need to shift your focus from operations to marketing, making it your top priority to attract and convert new clients.  (jump to)

Pay per click CAN work for MSPs if it’s part of an overall marketing strategy: My guest this week, Corey Zieman – owner of Guaranteed PPC, explains how effective pay per click advertising can turn your MSP into a powerful client magnet in an evolving digital landscape. (jump to)

The perfect heading for your MSPs website:  Lastly, I answer a question from Greg in Melbourne, Australia. He wants advice on what headline to use on his website for maximum impact. (jump to)

Join me as we unpack these topics and learn from some triumphs and trials in the MSP world. Oh, and don’t forget to join me in the MSP Marketing Facebook group.

READ FULL TRANSCRIPT

How to grade the quality of your MSP’s leads

When it comes to generating leads for your MSP, not all leads are created equal. It’s easy to get excited about a new prospect, but before you dive in, take a moment to assess whether they’re truly a good fit for your business. Here are three crucial criteria to grade every lead.

1. Opportunity and Urgency: A prospect’s urgency can be a game-changer. Are they locked into a contract with another MSP, or are they desperate for a solution right now? The more urgent their needs, the higher quality the lead. Always ask about their current IT situation and pressing issues – they’ll tell you if they’re ready to move.

2. Fit: Evaluate whether they’re your ideal client. This isn’t just about budget, it’s about working with businesses that align with your strengths and preferences. If you’ve learned anything from experience, it’s that compromising on this leads to regret.

3. Engagement: A prospect who actively engages with you is far more likely to become a valuable client. If you’re doing all the chasing, it’s a red flag. A genuine partnership starts with mutual interest – don’t hesitate to walk away if that’s missing.

Prioritise these factors, and you’ll focus your energy on leads that are truly worth your time.

If I suggested you spent 80% of your time marketing your MSP, would you think I was nuts?

Many MSP owners share a common origin story: leaving an unsatisfying job to start their own business, driven by a desire for control over their work, time, and income.

In the early days, you likely faced the struggle of balancing quality with growth, hiring staff, and dealing with the inevitable drop in standards and the relentless demands on your time. As your business matured, the leads that once flowed naturally began to dry up, leaving you wondering where the next client will come from.

The solution? Transform yourself once more – this time from the owner of an MSP to its chief marketer.

Dedicate the majority of your working time to generating new leads, nurturing prospects, and closing deals. Remember, the MSPs that dominate their markets are the ones whose owners prioritise marketing, turning themselves into client magnets. This shift is essential not just for growth, but for achieving the lifestyle and financial rewards you envisioned when you first started your business.

Pay per click CAN work for MSPs if it’s part of an overall marketing strategy

Many MSPs have a love-hate relationship with pay per click (PPC) advertising. The allure of paying to get your message in front of potential clients who need help right now is strong, but the reality can be disappointing. Too often, MSPs spend a fortune on PPC campaigns only to see little return. However, as the digital landscape evolves, particularly with AI’s influence, PPC can play a pivotal role in your marketing strategy.

My guest on this episode, Corey Zieman, owner of Guaranteed PPC, argues that PPC, when done correctly, can be the backbone of your lead generation efforts. He emphasises the importance of focusing on the right keywords – those that attract serious business inquiries rather than tyre kickers. Corey also highlights the potential of YouTube as a platform, where creating niche content and leveraging remarketing can keep your MSP top of mind when prospects are ready to switch providers.

For MSPs to succeed with PPC, it’s about more than just setting up ads – it requires ongoing optimisation, smart targeting, and a comprehensive strategy that integrates PPC with broader marketing efforts.

Connect with Corey on LinkedIn and check out his website GuaranteedPPC.com

The perfect heading for your MSPs website

Greg’s MSP in Melbourne, Australia, is facing a common challenge: finding the perfect headline for his website.

The headline on your homepage is crucial – it’s the first thing visitors see, and it only has a couple of seconds to hook them before they bounce away. When done right, it can significantly increase engagement, encouraging potential clients to explore your site and, ultimately, inquire about your services.

For MSPs that have been around for a few years and already have a solid client base, here’s a headline that works wonders: “558 Melbourne Businesses Already Trust Us With Their Technology. You Should Too.”

This headline leverages social proof, showcasing the number of users you currently support. It’s an effective way to convey credibility and trustworthiness right from the start. While that figure might represent users spread across multiple clients, it paints a powerful picture of your reliability and expertise. Just remember to update the number a couple of times a year to keep it accurate.

This simple, yet impactful headline can quickly transform your website’s effectiveness, helping to draw in more potential clients by emphasising the trust others have already placed in your MSP.

Got a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post How to grade the quality of your MSP’s leads appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to this week’s episode of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP.

In this episode I explain why MSPs should focus on strategic marketing – building long-term relationships with potential clients through consistent, valuable content, rather than relying on ineffective, one-off tactical efforts.  (jump to)

I also address the need to look at your marketing from a prospect’s point of view.  Focus on understanding and addressing their specific fears, as fear of pain often outweighs the pursuit of gain in their decision-making process.  (jump to)

I chat with marketing strategist Ruthie Sterrett, who emphasises the critical role of strategic content marketing for MSPs in building trust and driving sales by addressing audience needs at every stage of the lead-to-client process.  (jump to)

Lastly, I tackle a question from Gary, who runs a well-established MSP in South Carolina.  He wants to know when and how to raise prices without losing clients.  I explain the importance of testing and adjusting prices for new clients regularly, and being transparent with existing clients when raising prices. (jump to)

Join me as we unpack these topics and learn from some triumphs and trials in the MSP world. Oh, and don’t forget to join me in the MSP Marketing Facebook group.

READ FULL TRANSCRIPT

MSPs who do this kind of marketing will ALWAYS struggle

Many MSPs fall into the trap of tactical marketing, which rarely brings the desired results. Let me explain what this is, help you recognise if you’re doing it, and suggest a better approach.

Recently, an MSP owner reached out to me – he’d posted a three-minute video on LinkedIn expecting great engagement but was disappointed with the results. He’d also started sending cold emails to prospective clients. Here’s the problem: tactical marketing like this often fails because it lacks strategy. A single video or cold email is unlikely to engage or convince potential clients, especially when the service you’re offering is complex and critical to their business.

Instead, what I recommend is strategic marketing. This involves building a relationship with your audience over time. Engage with them through consistent, valuable content – be that social media posts, educational emails, or direct mail. Your goal is to stay on their radar until they are ready to buy.

Ask yourself, are you just copying what others do, or do you have a strategic plan? A solid strategy will help you build a lasting relationship with your audience, ensuring you’re the first MSP they think of when they’re ready to make a switch.

Watch on YouTube

Look at what you sell from the prospect’s point of view

One of the most powerful marketing superpowers you can develop is seeing your services from the prospect’s point of view. Fear is a surprisingly strong driver for your prospects. They’re more motivated by avoiding pain than seeking gains.

Always keep this in mind when talking to potential clients. Their fears vary based on their roles. Business owners fear mistakes because they hinder progress. Managers fear looking foolish to their bosses. Internal IT managers fear you’ll expose their incompetence or make them look bad.

Tailor your message to your audience’s fears. It’s more complex when factoring in decision makers versus influencers. An internal IT manager might not decide on co-managed IT, but they can block you if their fears aren’t addressed.

Ask open questions to understand three things: what they need, want, and fear. Needs are less critical as they’re brain decisions. Wants are heart decisions, so your marketing should appeal emotionally, showing safety and partnership. Address fears directly to prevent them from blocking a positive buying decision.

Remember, objections are verbal expressions of fear. Welcome them as chances to alleviate those fears. Always answer objections emotionally, because while the brain influences, the heart decides.

Watch on YouTube

My guest reveals how MSPs can use content to warm up prospects

I had the pleasure of chatting with Ruthie Sterrett, a seasoned marketing strategist and founder of The Consistency Corner. We delve deep into the crucial role of content marketing for MSPs.

Ruthie highlights why content marketing is indispensable, emphasising that creating the right content at each stage of the lead-to-client process can significantly warm up prospects.  She shares insights on how MSPs can use content to build relationships, trust, and ultimately drive sales.

For MSPs new to content marketing, she recommends focusing on social media to test and refine messaging before expanding to other channels like email marketing and long-form content. This approach helps avoid the overwhelm often associated with marketing efforts.

Ruthie also points out common mistakes, such as relying too heavily on AI without a clear understanding of the audience’s needs or the importance of the human touch to ensure authenticity and relevance.  If you’re an MSP owner looking to enhance your marketing strategy, Ruthie’s insights are invaluable.

Watch on YouTube

Connect with Ruthie on LinkedIn and check out her website https://www.theconsistencycorner.com/

When is the right time to raise your prices?

This week’s question comes from Gary, who runs a well-established MSP in South Carolina. Despite being in business for 12 years, Gary asks, “How do I know it’s the right time to put up my prices? I don’t want to lose clients.”

Firstly, pricing for new clients should be flexible. Regularly test and nudge up prices to see what the market can bear. Often, clients are willing to pay more than you think for trustworthy and reliable service.

For existing clients, be cautious. There are two approaches:

1. Overt Price Increases: Directly raise your prices by a set percentage each year. This is transparent and honest, which clients appreciate.
2. Covert Price Increases: Introduce additional services with a higher margin. This effectively raises prices without changing the base service cost, as clients see it as added value.

In my opinion, overt price increases are preferable due to their transparency. Clients value honesty and clear communication, which helps maintain trust and loyalty.

Balancing profitability with client retention is crucial. By carefully adjusting prices and maintaining transparency, you can successfully navigate this challenge.

Do you have a question about your MSP’s marketing? Submit one here for Paul’s Personal Peer Group.

The post Episode 242: MSPs who do this kind of marketing will ALWAYS struggle appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Could an AI robodialler be a smart add to your marketing toolkit? I tested one... its not ready for marketing yet, but could work for inbound helpdesk calls

I'm a big fan of MSPs making outbound phone calls. It's the entire third step of my simple MSP marketing strategy:

---

---

Why? Because one of the biggest marketing problems you have is reaching the right person, at the right time, with the right message. You want to be there the very moment they are feeling negative about their incumbent MSP.

That would be very lucky timing, right?

Actually... I don't believe in luck. I believe in being prepared and taking action.

The easiest way to get lucky is to make 50 outbound phone calls to your audiences every day. This is how you stack the odds in your favour.

Keep picking up the phone, asking open questions about the business and their technology, and at least once a week you should get lucky with someone saying "it's so weird you called, because..."

Side note: I explore this in more detail here.

So here's an interesting question... seeing as finding someone to make outbound calls can be difficult... and many telemarketing agencies overdeliver for the first 2 months, then underdeliver for the rest of time ... should you use an AI robodialler to make outbound calls?

My answer today is NO. But I expect this to change in the years ahead.

This answer is based on a couple of months of my business using an AI robodialler.

We signed up to Voxia after seeing it featured in a marketing newsletter. There are alternatives of course.

We gave the AI agent:

• A desired flow and outcome for the call

• Specific phrases to use if possible

• FAQs with answers

• And a Calendly to book appointments in

Its mission was to call MSPs in the US and try to book them a 15 minute Zoom with my colleague Ben to talk about the MSP Marketing Edge. So it wasn't doing any selling as such; its job was just qualifying people and setting appointments.

It was very very clever and very adaptable. One MSP said his perfect clients were on Sesame Street, and it kept making humorous references to that for the rest of the call.

But I'll be honest... it didn't work for us. Here's why:

• The delay was slightly too long: The AI would ask a question, the human would reply and the gap before the AI spoke again was a fraction too long. Lots of humans started talking again, which then fractured the conversation. In recordings, we could hear humans losing interest. I know the physics of AI calling make this hard but expect this problem to vanish in the years ahead. Maybe the AI will predict and pre-prepare dozens of possible answers based on the first few words the human is saying... or start talking a fraction before we've finished speaking so it feels like a natural conversation.

• People quickly spotted it was an AI: Perhaps because of the delay or something else that didn't feel quite right (it's hard to pinpoint what makes for uncanny valley as it's a feeling not a thought). A surprising number of MSPs asked "are you an AI?". Maybe it's just that MSPs are super smart and looking out for this, whereas normal business owners and managers aren't.

• During our campaign AI robocallers were banned in the US

Of course the technology is going to get better and better. It's probably already better than when we tried it at the start of the year.

And maybe a more obvious use of this is not for outbound sales calls. What if every user who called your helpdesk is asked a number of basic questions by the AI (so your technicians don't have to):

• Tell me what the problem is

• I'm sorry to hear that. Let's get it sorted for you. Is it just affecting you or anyone else?

• And is it stopping you getting on with your work or can you work around it for a bit?

Then the AI could either transfer the caller to "their colleague" (a human technician) or log it as a ticket giving the caller a rough expectation of how long it could take to be fixed (based on current ticket levels).

How much technician time could you save by eliminating 80% of phone calls?

How easy would it be to offer this 24/7, with the AI telling callers when humans will be in to fix the problem?

Email me if any PSAs already do this.

The post Should MSPs use AI robodiallers to make prospecting calls? appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to a special episode of the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP.

In this Special Easter Episode I’m joined by Kevin Clune, who I like to describe as the Marketing R&D department of the entire MSP channel.

Kevin and I talk about the present and future of MSP marketing tools, including AI tools and GPTs, and how advancements in AI technology could revolutionize how MSPs market to their leads, prospects and clients.

Featured guest:

Kevin Clune is the Founder of MSP Growth Hacks, Co-Founder of Zest, and a Growth Advisor for MSPs. After growing and exiting an MSP business in 2018, he went on to publish his first book “The MSP Growth Funnel” to help others do the same. This spawned his career as a serial entrepreneur and vocal figure in the IT industry, as he continues to deliver valuable research and actionable advice to MSPs of all sizes.

Connect with Kevin on LinkedIn:

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• Connect with me on LinkedIn:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com

The post Episode 229: SPECIAL: Using AI in your MSP’s marketing appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 Five marketing myths that are holding you back

• 06:18 This tool sells more to your clients

• 13:33 The secrets of successful Facebook marketing

Featured guest:

Thank you to Trevor W. Goodchild, Facebook Ad Policy Specialist, for joining me to talk about how he helps businesses to navigate the sometimes complicated and mysterious world of Facebook advertising, and how MSPs can use Facebook to reach their target audience.

Trevor W. Goodchild is a Facebook ad policy expert who’s worked at Facebook in ads, tech and project management. Mark Zuckerberg announced his last project internally. He’s a public speaker, high ranked blogger & best selling sci-fi author. Goodchild helped launch the Xbox 360 at Microsoft, the iPod nano at Apple before beginning Facebook ad policy consulting. His clients have included ad agencies of Tony Robbins, Harv Eker & Dean Graziosi, who he has helped de-mystify Facebook bans and get ads live again.

Connect with Trevor on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/trevor-goodchild/

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Connect with me on LinkedIn:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Grab yourself a copy of either of this week’s recommended books:
  • The Power Of Positive Thinking:
    • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Positive-Thinking-Norman-Vincent/dp/0749307153/
  • Only the Paranoid Survive: How to Exploit the Crisis Points that Challenge Every Company and Career
    • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Only-Paranoid-Survive-Exploit-Challenge/dp/1800810628/

Transcription:

The post Episode 220: MSPs: This tool sells more to your clients appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 Is Facebook a viable promotional tool for an MSP?

• 05:44 Five common website mistakes

• 19:22 How ’emotional content’ can help you connect with prospects

Featured guest:

Thank you to Matt Tompkins, President of Two Brothers Creative, for joining me to talk about how MSPs can build trust and connect with leads and prospects by using ’emotional content’ in their marketing.

Matt Tompkins has hosted and produced shows on 8 different stations in the midwest, including hosting a nationally syndicated program for SiriusXM. He created, produced, and hosted a midwest-based sketch comedy television show which followed Saturday Night Live for 7 seasons and 103 episodes, becoming the highest-rated TV show in the market at the time. Matt founded his production company with his brother Ben Tompkins in 2014 and they produce podcasts for businesses and clients, specializing in video podcasting – which they leverage to meet all of the marketing needs for any business from SEO to social media, digital and content creation.

Connect with Matt on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/twobrotherscreative/

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Connect with me on LinkedIn:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• I talked about Seth Godin’s Purple Cow – if that’s something you want to follow up on, here’s a link:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Purple-Cow-Transform-Business-Remarkable/dp/014101640X/
• I also mentioned Marcus Sheridan’s They Ask, You Answer, you can find a copy of that here:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/They-Ask-You-Answer-Revolutionary/dp/1119610141
• And you can listen to my podcast episode where I talked to Marcus here:
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/podcast/episode164/
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, The Slight Edge:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Slight-Edge-Jeff-Olson/dp/1935944312/

Transcription:

The post Episode 218: Is Facebook a viable promotional tool for an MSP? appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 An MSP horror story you’ll want to avoid

• 05:14 The advice that could save your marriage

• 10:05 Creating a brand video to win new clients

Featured guest:

Thank you to filmmaker Mariana Henninger, for joining me to talk about how MSPs can use a brand video to appeal to prospects and get the edge over their local competition.

Mariana is a seasoned EMMY® Award winning documentary filmmaker who has taken her passion and experience in intimate and emotion-driven personal storytelling to help coaches, course creators, speakers and authors hone in on their story and create ONE single video that will revolutionize their sales process.

Connect with Mariana on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/marianahenninger/

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, The Phoenix Project: A Novel About It, Devops, And Helping Your Business Win:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Phoenix-Project-Devops-Helping-Business/dp/1942788290

Transcription:

The post Episode 207: How ordinary clients talk about their MSP appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 What are YOU using AI tools for?

• 05:21 Creating engaging content for LinkedIn

• 14:47 Improving your employee and client satisfaction and retention rates

Featured guest:

Thank you to Stephen Spiegel, Founder and CEO of Crewhu, for joining me to talk about  how keeping your employees happy has a positive effect on client satisfaction, which can help MSPs improve retention rates, increasing your ability to sell more.

Stephen Spiegel has over 15 years experience as an entrepreneur. His success comes from supporting the needs of employees keeping turnover uncharacteristically low, productivity high, and placing a premium on employee recognition and growth. In 2003 he was one of the first entrepreneurs to bring the Cold Stone Creamery brand to South Florida. In 2013 he created Crewhu, an employee recognition and rewards platform, making it easier for businesses to reward employees for outstanding service. Stephen continues to focus on creating a culture of appreciation and collaboration knowing a company’s competitive advantage comes from building a strong team.

Connect with Steve on LinkedIn:

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Subscribe to the MSP Marketing Action Monthly magazine:
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/action/
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, Switch: How to change things when change is hard:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Switch-change-things-when-hard/dp/1847940323/

Transcription:

The post Episode 203: MSPs: 3 ideas for better LinkedIn engagement appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 Keep your foot on the marketing gas pedal

• 07:19 The huge impact of using personalised video in your prospect and client communications

• 15:35 Protect your clients from their staff and themselves

Featured guest:

Thank you to Jacob Prime, CEO & Co-founder of Ploy, for joining me to talk about how his new business is already helping MSPs and other businesses protect themselves and save money by enabling them to better understand the apps they are using and the licenses they’re paying for.

Connect with Jacob on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/jacob-prime/

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Subscribe to the MSP Marketing Action Monthly magazine:
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/action/
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, Seven Stories Every Salesperson Must Tell:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Seven-Stories-Every-Salesperson-Must/dp/1925648699

Transcription:

The post Episode 198: This simple idea will have HUGE impact appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 The ONE nugget of advice new MSPs need

• 07:09 The benefits of operating your MSP on a four-day working week

• 15:49 Marketing cyber security without leaning on fear, uncertainty and doubt

Featured guest:

Thank you to Dana Mantilia, CEO of Cyber Dana, for joining me to talk about cyber security marketing, and how you can do that without resorting to FUD – Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Dana is an international cybersecurity speaker and social media professional. She has over 4 million LinkedIn content views and over 1 million YouTube video views.

She now takes that knowledge and assists MSPs and MSPs with creating  personalized social media content and marketing strategies to “Future Proof” their businesses. Dana’s YouTube channel  she  interviews cyber professionals and discusses cybersecurity best practices and specific elements of CMMC ( the DoDs new cybersecurity requirement).

Connect with Dana on LinkedIn:

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dana-mantilia/

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to the MSP Marketing Action Monthly magazine:
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/action/
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, 10% Happier: How I Tamed the Voice in My Head, Reduced Stress Without Losing My Edge, and Found Self-Help That Actually Works – A True Story:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/10-Happier-Reduced-Self-Help-Actually/dp/1444799053/

Transcription:

The post Episode 190: Can an MSP do a 4 day working week? appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 Your views on the value (or otherwise) of SLAs

• 05:22 Avoid FUD when marketing cyber security

• 13:08 The impact of AI on marketing

Featured guest:

Thank you to Scott Bywater, Direct Response Copywriter, for joining me to talk about how to use AI effectively in your emails and marketing.

Scott Bywater is one of the most sought after marketing copywriters in Australia, who runs what many regard as the highest level private marketing group in Australia, Elite Marketers.

He is the creator of the online ‘Simple Email ROI System’ course and over the past 21 years has written for gurus and leading companies including Kerwin Rae, Jay Conrad Levinson (of ‘Guerilla Marketing’ fame), Mercola.com and The Learning Annex. 

He’s an in-demand speaker who has presented at James Schramko’s SuperFast Business, Dale Beaumont and Ben Simkin’s masterminds – and is on a mission to help coaches, consultants and course creators leverage their most undervalued asset (their email list) without being pushy or salesy.

Connect with Scott on LinkedIn:

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Subscribe to the MSP Marketing Action Monthly magazine:
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/action/
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, Power Failure: The Rise and Fall of General Electric:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Power-Failure-Rise-General-Electric/dp/0141991224/

Transcription:

The post Episode 189: Market cyber security without using FEAR appeared first on Paul Green's MSP Marketing Edge.

Welcome to the MSP Marketing Podcast with me, Paul Green. This is THE show if you want to grow your MSP. This week’s show includes:

• 00:00 Persuading clients to accept MFA

• 05:23 The benefits of posting real photos on your MSP website

• 12:43 The value of public speaking to your business

Featured guest:

Thank you to Grant Baldwin, Founder and CEO at The Speaker Lab, for joining me to talk about how people can promote themselves and their businesses by making speaking appearances at conferences or business events.

As founder and CEO of The Speaker Lab, Grant Baldwin has helped thousands of people build successful and sustainable speaking businesses. Over the last 15 years Grant has become a sought after speaker, podcaster, author, and accomplished entrepreneur.

Featured on the Inc. 5000 list, Forbes, Entrepreneur, and the Huffington Post, he has committed his expertise and insight to equipping others to share their meaningful message with the masses.

With a mission to motivate other leaders and entrepreneurs, The Speaker Lab has worked with students in all 50 US states and in over 45 countries around the world.

Connect with Grant on LinkedIn:

Extra show notes:

• Listen or watch every Tuesday on your favourite podcast platform, hosted by me, Paul Green, an MSP marketing expert:
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/paul-green-msp-marketing/
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/about/
• Find out about my MSP Marketing Edge service:
  • https://www.mspmarketingedge.com
• You can join me in the MSP Marketing group on Facebook:
  • https://www.facebook.com/groups/mspmarketing/
• Subscribe to the MSP Marketing Action Monthly magazine:
  • http://mspmarketingedge.com/action/
• Subscribe to my YouTube channel:
  • https://www.youtube.com/mspmarketing
• Subscribe to this podcast using your favourite podcast provider:
  • https://www.audible.co.uk/pd/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-Podcast/B08JK38L4V
  • https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast/id1485101351
  • https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/paul-greens-msp-marketing-podcast
  • https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cucGF1bGdyZWVuc21zcG1hcmtldGluZy5jb20vZmVlZC9wb2RjYXN0?sa
  • https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/b03a9638-adf4-4491-93f1-569183e079d7/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast
  • https://open.spotify.com/show/1Hw52ScOg5WvGaBUkaOrI7
  • https://tunein.com/radio/Paul-Greens-MSP-Marketing-Podcast-p1264893/
  • https://blubrry.com/paulgreenmspmarketing/
  • https://deezer.com/show/1512622
• Got a question from the show? Email me directly: hello@paulgreensmspmarketing.com
• Grab yourself a copy of this week’s recommended book, Finally Wealthy: Your Simple Guide To Create Massive Wealth:
  • https://www.amazon.co.uk/Finally-Wealthy-Simple-Create-Massive/dp/B09JR9GJ7S/

Transcription: